another asipring newbie...

[ithacaartist]

I've decided to get my NYS permit, get set up with an FFL guy here, and buy a pistol. Always loved the look of the Luger, so that's what I seek for a shooter with a touch of collectibility--something that would be able to see some use, but not take a big dive in value because of it. I've narrowed down to the desire for an early one because I like the grip safety. 9mm a must, exterior could be beat/pitted,whatever, as long as the innards and bore are in good or better condition. Really prefer 4" bbl. but all else negotiable.
Casting about for rigs for sale, I find great range of asking prices, so here is the point at which I am lost, unsure of how much I should spend for what I want. Sure, a 9mm DWM 1906 AE all matched with holster (I like the Swiss style holster w/pocket for mag.), xtra mag,takedown tool, etc. but since I would spend $1-1.5k, I'll be realistic instead!
Little help?

[DavidJayUden]

Welcome!
You are asking for a lot and limiting yourself to a pretty pricey and small group. Are you completely against the later Interarms Mauser Parabellum models? Great shooters, with grip safety and avail. in 9mm. Buy one at the right money and shoot the wheels off it, and I'm betting you won't loose a dime when it's time to move on.
Otherwise get out the Big checkbook, then run the risk of loosing a lot of money if a numbered part breaks.
dju

[Edward Tinker]

yes, I agree with the above.

There are also Dutch 9mm in grip safety, but that is even more cost

Ed

[Hugo Borchardt]

Welcome! You might consider a reblued, mismatched or rebarrelled 1906 gun that needs a good home. That way you get what you want for a shooter price, and it still has a touch of collectibility.

My first one was a fairly common 1920 commercial rebarrel in 7.65 Didn't have a grip safety, but it was fun to shoot, and less than $600. I prefer the 7.65 for the range as that is how the parabellum was originally designed, and I don't need a lot of knock down power at the range. :-)

Clark

[FNorm]

The Swiss made some great shootin' lugers too. But tough to find in 9mm.

FN

[ithacaartist]

Thank you gentlemen,
I realize I have champagne taste combined with beer wallet, which does present some contradictions. You've convinced me that a decent shooter is what I need right now. After all, I do intend to shoot my rig regularly...and if I luck out somewhere down the road and find a beautiful one to actually collect, that'd be OK. Now you got me thinkin' about the 9mm aspect, per Clark's comments re original design! Meanwhile, will check out the Dutch and Swiss versions, as I was not informed enough earlier to look at them.

[ithacaartist]

This unit would be acceptable, but it puts me out of category. What do you guys think?
http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...ac2c728dcaa06f

[Ice]

That Interarms Luger is a beautiful pistol; I have one. IMHO it is overpriced $300 - $400. I have seen them at gunshows priced in the $1000 range NIB. The Simpson pistol is available immediately though.

Charlie

[tudorbug]

I have the same opinion as "Ice" concerning the cost of the Simpson example.

It would be probably be equally interesting to read about your experience in obtaining a pistol license in New York State. I suspect that the effort is not straightforward.

David

[mrerick]

David,

I lived in NY state for many years. In Dutchess County, the local county sheriff handled the permitting process. Forms, photographs, fingerprints, multiple character endorsements and registration of every pistol. After a suitable bureaucratic time period (many months, as I recall) my permit arrived, was registered by the sheriff's office and I got to transport my pistols in from Illinois where I had lived prior to NY.

Valid outside NYC, it's a concealed carry permit. NY is very all or nothing in their approach to the 2nd amendment.

If you're interested in older collectible firearms, consider getting your own Class 03 (Curio and Relic) Federal Firearms License. You'll get back the $30 three year fee in discounts that most of the online and some in person dealers will extend to you. It makes buying and selling qualified firearms much easier...

Marc

[silverknife]

David, The C&R license is a very good idea but remember that it will not authorize you to possess a handgun in NY State. Only NY State can issue the permit and NY does not recognize any other state's license.

I just bought an Interarms P.08 for shooting. Got it in .30Luger (7.65 Parabellum) and it is great fun to shoot. As previously mentioned it is the caliber that the weapon was first designed to shoot and with the more moderate recoil than the 9mm you might enjoy it a bit more for a first handgun, although truth to tell, my suggestion to new pistol shooters is to pick up a .22 and practice, practice, practice. You can find Stoeger .22 Lugers around for very reasonable prices. I pay 21.00 for a box of factory .30Luger ammo. compared with a small fraction of that for .22 rimfire.

Regards,
Doug

[mrerick]

Of course, given the opportunity, you could always move to a place with low taxes where you don't have to put up with all the nonsense...

Took me 15 years, but I finally did it 20 years ago.

Marc

[tudorbug]

Sincere thank yous, Marc and Doug. I live in Georgia but grew up in New York State and had an inkling that obtaining a New York State pistol llicense was an extraordinary effort. My recollection is that pistol permits carried pistol serial number(s).

While at West Point in the middle 1970's, colleagues were talking about purchasing Browning 9mm pistols and obtaining their pistol permits. I noted to them that the effort was cumbersome and appears as if it still is.

I thank you, David

Added note: I would not say that Georgia has low taxes and they do tax military retired pay.

[silverknife]

You're most welcome.

The process for obtaining a pistol permit is more burdensome in some areas of NY than in others. You will need to have the background investigation done by your local law enforcement agency-town or village police, county sheriff, NYSP, depending on where you live. Some agencies are more dilligent than others. The permit then goes through the County Clerk's office for processing to the Judge who is issuing the permits. The speed of that process also varies from County to County and Judge to Judge. I have no idea what it takes to get a carry permit in the City of NY. New York State Pistol permits do carry the description of every handgun which you own because each handgun is registered. Make, model, serial No. caliber and Bbl length.

It is a royal pain in the arse. After you have been issued a permit each time you see a gun you want, you buy it, get a receipt, go to the County Clerk's pistol license dept. register the gun, get a purchase coupon, go back to the store, give them the coupon, fill out the ATF&E form, get the NICS check, and then and only then, pick up your gun. Depending on how far you live from the Clerk's office and how far the dealer is from your home, a great deal of automobile travel may be one of the price's you pay for living in NY.

Thank you for your service to our nation, sir.

Regards,
Doug

[ithacaartist]

Thanks, Doug, et al.
Here's a bit more on the NY permit process:
First, I filled out a form and paid $10 to get my application, on which I'd listed the names of the others in my household, and the usual personal info.
The form itself is on 8 1/2" x 11" card stock, the back is for fingerprints. After personal and vocational info, we choose among "carry concealed", "possess on premises" and "possess/carry during employment"
Next is space to fill in illegal stuff you got caught at, beyond traffic tickets, and its date(s) of disposition and jurisdiction.
Moving along, we can fill in about being fired or militarily discharged, our alcohol & drug use, mental health hospitalization, revoked pistol or dealers license, physical limitations pertaining to safe operation, or whether involved with family court.
Now comes the space for four required character references. They must be county residents over 21, but not Shreriff's deputies or elected/appointed officials, immediate relatives of mine, or members of my household.
I moved from Tompkins County to Schuyler County last summer. The county line is about 200yds. up the road. This is a blessing, in that Schuyler County is reputed to take less time in processing and for being better for granting permits. This is a curse as well, for me, because though I've spent almost 40 years in the area (Seneca, Tompkins, and Schuyler Counties), I've lived mostly near Ithaca (Remember Ithaca--deemed USA's "most enlightened" by the Utne Reader, also referred to as "10 square miles surrounded by reality"), consequently most of the people I could use for the 4 required personal references do NOT live in Schuyler county.
So I'm scratchin' to find my four, finding some have moved away, have no phone, or in the case of two, chose not to be involved with the task. Nothing against me, they said...just didn't like guns. But I guess asking a question such as this is an opportunity to get to know someone a bit better, even if you've known them for over 30 years.
The County Clerk's office charges $10 for taking four 2"x2" pics of me, if I don't bring my own (30 days' recent)
After the originals in black ink and in duplicate are sworn, off they go!

New York City is another matter entirely. The NY Permit in any variation is not valid in NYC or Nassau County. You're not packin', are you, Clark?

[sheepherder]

In my county in NYS there is also an interview, on your premises, by the local LEO. They will want to talk to all members of your immediate family (who live with you). They will also want to see the place where the pistol will be secured. (Must be locking). These are sheriffs or your town/city police who are given a wad of applicants to interview when time permits.

The photos and fingerprints must be done by the local investigating LEO.

It's been many years since my background check & interview & all other stuff was done, but IIRC it took about nine months...

Edit: They do not want to hear the term "home defense" or "self defense". You want it for hunting, or shooting sports, or recreational use...not defense...

Edit2: I forgot; there is now a required Pistol Safety Course from a licensed instructor, I think it is a 4 hour course and a ~$10 fee...You must complete the course before buying a pistol...Also - You must have actually bought a handgun *before* starting the application process...You can't possess it, but you need the receipt from the dealer/seller...(I don't know the rationale of this)...

And all permits in my county (maybe all NYS?) are concealed carry.

[alanint]

Thank GOd I live in Florida. This is the most ungodly intrusive and more than likely unconstitutional process I have ever heard of!!!
Here's the process to carry concealed in the state of Florida
1) Take the course
2) Pass background check
3) Qualify on the range, (ten shots at 7 yards)
4) Send in paperwork and fee
5) Receive your concealed carry permit!!

[tudorbug]

Ithaca's rendition is more what I had in mind when I was thinking back. A cumbersome process designed to keep hand guns out of the hands of law abiding folks.

David

[DavidJayUden]

And just think of all those poor bureaucrats and their minions who would be unemployed if the States all streamlined their processes.
The horror...
dju

[silverknife]

NYS Judges have the discretion to issue several different types of permits: Business Premises only, Business Only, Target shooting and Hunting Only, Premises only or unrestricted. There may be others but the NY Appellate Courts have given wide discretion to judges as far as issuing and revocation is concerned. The statute itself does not provide for different classes of licenses but the common law has developed these classifications. Want to challenge the denial, revocation, or supension of a permit in NY? There is a judicial procedure for doing so but be prepared to spend a lot of money for a process which is almost certainly bound for failure. Great deference is paid to the discretion of the Judge by the Appellate Division where the case will be heard.

Don't forget to apply for Utah and Florida non-resident licenses. Take a 5 hour classroom course from a Utah certified instructor (no live fire required), fill out a pretty simple pair of apllications, get your prints taken at a cop shop (for the FL license) and send them in. If you have a clean criminal record the licenses will be issued which will be recognized in just about every state in the nation (best to check before you go there). However, those licenses will not be recognized in NY. NY recognizes NO OTHER STATE'S license, hence....no state will recognize NY's license. (go figure)

Then here in NY we have the "assault weapon" ban and the ban on magazines manufactured after 1994 which will hold more than 10 rounds (except for tubular magazines on .22 rimfire rifles which are OK).

Regards,
Doug