To rework or not....Rare Luger???

Thor · 12-14-2001, 01:46 AM

Got a Luger in my shop today that MIGHT be a one of kind type! I am torn between not doing anything to maybe just a touch up or two! A Luger like this doesnt come along everyday. IT does have a few bad spots on it, But overall it is in excellent condition! but perhaps I should leave it as if for the next generations? Whatya think? I solicite your opinions! I am so confused~Thor~

bill m · 12-14-2001, 01:59 AM

Well, share what it is with us, please!

Thor · 12-14-2001, 02:03 AM

My question, I guess is if it is not shown in a book is a particular gun with a side inscription a POSSIBILTY? Thor

bill m · 12-14-2001, 02:12 AM

Yes, a possibility, but..........would have to be something that was possible, not something not probable. If one thought it could be real, I would not touch it at this time until I researched it and was more sure as to what I had.

BILL · 12-14-2001, 02:14 AM

I was in at a gunshow a few years ago when a young man brought in a fat barrel Swiss variation that hadn't been seen before. It happens. The Lugers in the books are guns that have been seen by collectors. It very well could be one of a kind. It does present you with an interesting situation, though. Let us know how it turns out.

BILL · 12-14-2001, 02:20 AM

Ok, you are killing us..what kind of Luger is it that has your attention? (a little hint would be nice)..

Thor · 12-14-2001, 02:24 AM

Bill, I think it is a Police Luger, I sure hate thinking I will mess some nice hidden treasure up! I have done this a couple of times before, see something really interesting and tell the owner he better get a second opinion before I touch it! In this case it is probably better safe than sorry! History is important to me too! Thor

BILL · 12-14-2001, 02:31 AM

Well, it is my opinion that most so called 'police' Lugers have already been reworked at least once. Thought maybe it was something really 'exotic'..yes, history is important, that is for sure.

Thor · 12-14-2001, 02:35 AM

Hey, that is a thought, just like the VOPO or East German Reworks, might be okay??? Thor

Thor · 12-14-2001, 02:39 AM

Bill, Well, I have to think about this some more! Lets pick this up tomorrow, got a big day and I have been missing out on sleep! Thor

12-14-2001, 02:43 AM

So, I have been "watching" this.

Bill, what makes the difference in an "official" rework? I know that the orginal factory reworks are considered one thing. I mean, lets say a 1911 1944 .45 ACP, they were reworked many, many times over the years. I carried many that were Remington slides, probably from WW2. If they were released, wouldn't they be a rework?

Ed

BILL · 12-14-2001, 02:45 AM

One of the biggest areas for controversy is the Luger 'police gun'. When many of them came to light in this country many advanced collectors refused to acknowledge them as legitimate 'collector' pieces because they were an aftermarket modification. In time they have come to be accepted and there are actually people who specialize in them. I am sure we will see this with the East German reworks (essentially the same evolution).

BILL · 12-14-2001, 02:52 AM

Some will argue that only an arsenal rework is 'official' and some (if they are collectors of said items) will also count the local sherriffs office reworks, which can be as little as a few letters stamped onto the grip frame. I don't want to sound cynical but it is really easy to get burned (or worse yet, start fooling yourself) when you set your sites on something that was obviously aftermarket. Sometimes this 'niche' collecting turns out OK but it is always risky business.

12-14-2001, 02:59 AM

I understand where you are coming from Bill, but I imagine the VOPO or Russian works will become niche items.

I think yes on VOPO, since arguably they are a continuation of the same country / origin, but not the Russians?

Ed

bill m · 12-14-2001, 03:14 AM

I think an "official rework" as you are calling them were done pre 1945. The Vopo and Russians are a different deal, but still have to be with-in there time frame to be an "official rework" also. Reworked police Lugers or Weimar Lugers have found there place in the collecting field in the last few years. If Thor's gun is a reworked police Luger as done by the Germans pre 1945, then it has collector value and if it is something special, then it should be left alone at least until it is known exactly what it is, as to "touch it up" would greatly decrease its value if it was a "rare" find!

Big Norm · 12-14-2001, 04:54 AM

Thor,

I recently bought a 1917 LP-08 with original nice bluing. But the sideplate was the wrong serial number. I got a side plate with the correct serial but it had real bad bluing. Like a dumbell, I had the whole gun blued and I have been kicking myself ever since.

I know guys who have had 1906 Russian Lugers reblued by professionals and have regretted it ever since. I have heard of you not rebluing some Lugers and I have respected you for denying yourself income for the sake of principle. You are a member of a dying group of real professionals. Don't do it. Follow your heart.

Just my two cents worth of opinion.

Big Norm

Thor · 12-14-2001, 11:13 AM

Well gents.....the Luger in question sure sparked an interesting thread. I think the Luger itself is not most interesting but the thread that followed about reworks and collectibles, This poor Luger is a salt blued 1918 DWM with all the small parts salt blued too. Of course only the very newcomers into the Luger collecting/shooting world would not know that it is incorrect for that variation, but being a shooter it really wouldnt matter except the owner wanted it returned to a strawed/rust blue configuration. The side frame inscription is pretty crude and as you can see says BAVARIA RURAL POLICE which is funny, why would the Germans do this so crudely or in English! Anyway, it is funny and sad what some people will do to a Luger. This will be taken off and luckily it is NOT very deep into the metal. Thanks for the string it was very interesting! The good news is there really is not a treasure Luger that might have been destroyed! I look for these guns, and if I see an original gun that is a collectible it is normally returned to the owner with nothing done to it after a nice long phone call so nice pieces can be saved! ~Thor~

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/DSCN0009(1).JPG

Hugh · 12-14-2001, 12:05 PM

Looks like it was done with one of those modern vibrating "engraving Pencils" that the Police want us to use to put our DL or SS # on all our guns and other possessions in case of robbery!

12-14-2001, 12:42 PM

DON'T TOUCH A DENT OR A DING IN THE FINNISH PERIOD!

TIM

John Sabato · 12-14-2001, 01:03 PM

Looks like a run of the mill 1918 DWM that has already been reworked at some point and salt blued to boot. A shooter! not a collector - especially since some cretin used an electric engraving pencil on the side of the frame IN ENGLISH.

It is UGLY as-is, and has no special collector attraction. Unless it has some sort of rare mechanical feature or unusual proof marks, I say Restore it to it's original beauty and make it the finest shooter that the owner could have.

That's my $1.02 (since I weighed in pretty heavily against the general consensus)

regards,

John

12-14-2001, 01:46 AM	#1
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	To rework or not....Rare Luger??? Got a Luger in my shop today that MIGHT be a one of kind type! I am torn between not doing anything to maybe just a touch up or two! A Luger like this doesnt come along everyday. IT does have a few bad spots on it, But overall it is in excellent condition! but perhaps I should leave it as if for the next generations? Whatya think? I solicite your opinions! I am so confused~Thor~

12-14-2001, 01:59 AM	#2
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: To rework or not....Rare Luger??? Well, share what it is with us, please!

12-14-2001, 02:03 AM	#3
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: To rework or not....Rare Luger??? My question, I guess is if it is not shown in a book is a particular gun with a side inscription a POSSIBILTY? Thor

12-14-2001, 02:12 AM	#4
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: To rework or not....Rare Luger??? Yes, a possibility, but..........would have to be something that was possible, not something not probable. If one thought it could be real, I would not touch it at this time until I researched it and was more sure as to what I had.

12-14-2001, 02:14 AM	#5
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: To rework or not....Rare Luger??? I was in at a gunshow a few years ago when a young man brought in a fat barrel Swiss variation that hadn't been seen before. It happens. The Lugers in the books are guns that have been seen by collectors. It very well could be one of a kind. It does present you with an interesting situation, though. Let us know how it turns out.

12-14-2001, 02:20 AM	#6
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: To rework or not....Rare Luger??? Ok, you are killing us..what kind of Luger is it that has your attention? (a little hint would be nice)..

12-14-2001, 02:24 AM	#7
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: To rework or not....Rare Luger??? Bill, I think it is a Police Luger, I sure hate thinking I will mess some nice hidden treasure up! I have done this a couple of times before, see something really interesting and tell the owner he better get a second opinion before I touch it! In this case it is probably better safe than sorry! History is important to me too! Thor

12-14-2001, 02:31 AM	#8
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: To rework or not....Rare Luger??? Well, it is my opinion that most so called 'police' Lugers have already been reworked at least once. Thought maybe it was something really 'exotic'..yes, history is important, that is for sure.

12-14-2001, 02:35 AM	#9
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: To rework or not....Rare Luger??? Hey, that is a thought, just like the VOPO or East German Reworks, might be okay??? Thor

12-14-2001, 02:39 AM	#10
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: To rework or not....Rare Luger??? Bill, Well, I have to think about this some more! Lets pick this up tomorrow, got a big day and I have been missing out on sleep! Thor

12-14-2001, 02:43 AM	#11
66mustang Guest Posts: n/a	Re: To rework or not....Rare Luger??? So, I have been "watching" this. Bill, what makes the difference in an "official" rework? I know that the orginal factory reworks are considered one thing. I mean, lets say a 1911 1944 .45 ACP, they were reworked many, many times over the years. I carried many that were Remington slides, probably from WW2. If they were released, wouldn't they be a rework? Ed

12-14-2001, 02:45 AM	#12
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: To rework or not....Rare Luger??? One of the biggest areas for controversy is the Luger 'police gun'. When many of them came to light in this country many advanced collectors refused to acknowledge them as legitimate 'collector' pieces because they were an aftermarket modification. In time they have come to be accepted and there are actually people who specialize in them. I am sure we will see this with the East German reworks (essentially the same evolution).

12-14-2001, 02:52 AM	#13
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	"official rework".. Some will argue that only an arsenal rework is 'official' and some (if they are collectors of said items) will also count the local sherriffs office reworks, which can be as little as a few letters stamped onto the grip frame. I don't want to sound cynical but it is really easy to get burned (or worse yet, start fooling yourself) when you set your sites on something that was obviously aftermarket. Sometimes this 'niche' collecting turns out OK but it is always risky business.

12-14-2001, 02:59 AM	#14
66mustang Guest Posts: n/a	Re: "official rework".. I understand where you are coming from Bill, but I imagine the VOPO or Russian works will become niche items. I think yes on VOPO, since arguably they are a continuation of the same country / origin, but not the Russians? Ed

12-14-2001, 03:14 AM	#15
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: "official rework".. I think an "official rework" as you are calling them were done pre 1945. The Vopo and Russians are a different deal, but still have to be with-in there time frame to be an "official rework" also. Reworked police Lugers or Weimar Lugers have found there place in the collecting field in the last few years. If Thor's gun is a reworked police Luger as done by the Germans pre 1945, then it has collector value and if it is something special, then it should be left alone at least until it is known exactly what it is, as to "touch it up" would greatly decrease its value if it was a "rare" find!

12-14-2001, 04:54 AM	#16
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	DON'T TOUCH IT Thor, I recently bought a 1917 LP-08 with original nice bluing. But the sideplate was the wrong serial number. I got a side plate with the correct serial but it had real bad bluing. Like a dumbell, I had the whole gun blued and I have been kicking myself ever since. I know guys who have had 1906 Russian Lugers reblued by professionals and have regretted it ever since. I have heard of you not rebluing some Lugers and I have respected you for denying yourself income for the sake of principle. You are a member of a dying group of real professionals. Don't do it. Follow your heart. Just my two cents worth of opinion. Big Norm

12-14-2001, 11:13 AM	#17
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Bavaria Rural Police Luger Well gents.....the Luger in question sure sparked an interesting thread. I think the Luger itself is not most interesting but the thread that followed about reworks and collectibles, This poor Luger is a salt blued 1918 DWM with all the small parts salt blued too. Of course only the very newcomers into the Luger collecting/shooting world would not know that it is incorrect for that variation, but being a shooter it really wouldnt matter except the owner wanted it returned to a strawed/rust blue configuration. The side frame inscription is pretty crude and as you can see says BAVARIA RURAL POLICE which is funny, why would the Germans do this so crudely or in English! Anyway, it is funny and sad what some people will do to a Luger. This will be taken off and luckily it is NOT very deep into the metal. Thanks for the string it was very interesting! The good news is there really is not a treasure Luger that might have been destroyed! I look for these guns, and if I see an original gun that is a collectible it is normally returned to the owner with nothing done to it after a nice long phone call so nice pieces can be saved! ~Thor~ http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/DSCN0009(1).JPG

12-14-2001, 12:05 PM	#18
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Re: Bavaria Rural Police Luger Looks like it was done with one of those modern vibrating "engraving Pencils" that the Police want us to use to put our DL or SS # on all our guns and other possessions in case of robbery!

12-14-2001, 12:42 PM	#19
TIMOTHY CANNEY Guest Posts: n/a	Re: To rework or not....Rare Luger??? DON'T TOUCH A DENT OR A DING IN THE FINNISH PERIOD! TIM

12-14-2001, 01:03 PM	#20
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	*I vote for you to FIX IT* Thor!** Looks like a run of the mill 1918 DWM that has already been reworked at some point and salt blued to boot. A shooter! not a collector - especially since some cretin used an electric engraving pencil on the side of the frame IN ENGLISH. It is UGLY as-is, and has no special collector attraction. Unless it has some sort of rare mechanical feature or unusual proof marks, I say Restore it to it's original beauty and make it the finest shooter that the owner could have. That's my $1.02 (since I weighed in pretty heavily against the general consensus) regards, John