Another new guy, new to Lugers

[Reef Donkey]

My late father left me an interesting 1898 8mm Mauser rifle which I have enjoyed researching as well as occasionally shooting. When a friend in a financial bind called to say he needed to sell a Luger given to him by the late father of another mutual friend, the potential for a new investigation project got the better of me. Research here would have told me that this is a more complicated proposition that I had imagined.

The pistol was brought home from WWII by the third friend's father, who reported it having been an officer's sidearm. From what I have read here it appears to be of commercial production, all the serial numbers appear to match and it is in very good condition. The guy I got it from had shot it a few times, but was apparently shooting .380 ammo in it. 9mm rounds chamber and cycle correctly, though I have not yet fired it.

In spite of the breach date stamping, the matching number magazine has an aluminum base plate, which one of the previous posts here indicates would seem a mid '30s production run. The proof stamps on the barrel and the caliber designation I understand, as with the receiver proof. The marking just forward of the date stamp I have yet to find and could use help with, as well as the stamp in the magazine well, of which I have yet to get a really good photo.

Any information anyone has interest in providing would be appreciated.

[Reef Donkey]

Couple more....

[mrerick]

First, Chip, welcome to the forum...

Next, don't ever shoot .380 (9mm Kurz) ammo out of this pistol. You'll damage it.

Next, consider not shooting it at all. Damaging this remarkable piece of history would really devalue it...

You have a pistol that was made before WW-I. Your Luger is one of the later C/B C/U C/G proofed pistols, and dates from 1911 or 1912. It was a commercial pistol sold privately to an officer. I'm pretty sure that the "Prv" marking confirms that it was privately owned at some point in it's history.


It made it through the war, and was taken into service during the Weimar period between the wars (the 1920 mark is a property mark, not a date). It was reworked at that time, and the sear safety was added so that it could be used in police service.

Then it was probably used during the late Weimar period and into the second world war.

The magazine is from the mid to late 1930s. It's probable that your magazine has police markings. Please post a picture of the base. Ah - you just posted it. It is a police magazine with Weimar markings.

I can't judge the finish from the photos, but it's likely that it is either original or a very old refinish.

Your pistol is probably in 9mm Luger. A No. 2 pencil should fit easily down the barrel.

Do you have any specific questions?

Marc

[Curly1]

Welcome to the forum Chip, nice pistol.

[Reef Donkey]

Wow, obviously came to the right place, thanks Marc! And thanks, Gary.

The number two pencil does fit easily down the barrel, with a good bit of wiggle room to spare. I don't know how often it would have been fired with the 9mm Kurz, but I have no need to fire it myself. All the same, I will try to find a gunsmith to check for damage.

What baffles me about the pistol is its condition. Even if refinished before the war, it is hard to comtemplate (for me) it surviving it and coming home like this, much less making it another 58 years in this condition. The only wear in the finish I find is between the grips toward the triggerguard (as seen in the first pics), the backstrap has little to none. The nickel plate on the body of the magazine is substancially worn, though. The trigger, safety lever, retainer part opposite the magazine release button and the disassembly lever under the breach all display a somewhat "brassy" finish.

The question that comes to mind will sound monotaneous and typical, but I assure you that it is asked for a different reason than when usually posed. The guy I got the luger from is a good friend and in really tough financial shape. While I gave him $1,400 for it and would love to keep it if valued there about, if it is worth much more I would feel compelled to sell it and give him the difference. All values are subjective, but was what I gave him a "reasonable" price?

I didn't mention earlier but I have several (now banned) HK items, so the Mauser/HK/DWM connection interests me. Addition of this piece to the collection has a symmetry.

[Curly1]

It was probably refinished after the war when brought back.

It would normally have wear on the high edges if it was original fiinish and was being carried in service.

I am leaning towards a very good reblue. If so I'm thinking you paid on the high end for a shooter.

If it turns out to be original than you did well.

Hopefully we will get some other opinions.

[klaus 3338]

Does it has a hold open?

[lugerholsterrepair]

Your pistol has a Police sear safety. It's unusual to see the Crown G on the chamber. It did not originally come with the aluminum bottom magazine..the wood one it came with was replaced by this one when it went into Police service. It was issued with 2 maybe 3 matching magazines with aluminum bottoms.. #1 was the primary mag and #2 and likely a #3 have gone AWOL.
I have seen quite a number of Police pistols that went through a refurbishment either by Simson or Mauser. Does the firing pin have flutes? Is it numbered to the pistol?
Is the toggle pin numbered?
It is likely that the pistol was refinnished when it went to the police for modification to a service pistol.

[Reef Donkey]

Hi Klaus,

Yes it does hold open.

Hi Jerry,

This is my first Luger and that ownership has only been since Wednesday, so I will go and find how to break this thing down and get your answers on the firing pin.

If the toggle pin is the lever with the checkered button just in front of and above the trigger, yes, it is numbered 62 with the rest.

The family of the WWII veteran that brought the pistol home say that it is in the condition in which it was brought home, then put up in a box in his closet; that being that the finish is what it was when it was in service and there has been no re-bluing.

Thanks.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Chip, You are at a severe disadvantage and surely need to know how to dismantle your pistol. I understand YouTube has some disassembly vidios.

The toggle pin is the rearmost axel pin of the toggle/bolt assembly. It is above the safety captured inside the the ears of the frame. Once the top cannon is off of the frame it is necessary to push this pin from right to left to remove it and then the bolt will slide rearward to remove the bolt/toggle from the forks. If this pistol has been through a Simson or Mauser rework it and the fluted firing pin will be numbered with the last 2 digits of your serial number.

[Reef Donkey]

Just found your post, Youtube is indeed where it was. Attached are more detailed pics. Figured out the toggle pin on disassembly, but not sure how the firing pin comes on out. They are both numbered with everything else I have seen so far.

Can you tell what you need from these pics or does it need to come apart further?

[lugerholsterrepair]

Chip, To remove the firing pin simply push on the slotted part with your index finger and turn to the left. You can also use the loading tool if you have one. This will rotate the firing pin guide to the left 90 degrees and line up the indexing lug and release the firing pin..The firing pin spring will push out the firing pin guide when lined up. Very simple. Look to see if the firing pin is fluted.

[Reef Donkey]

Here is the firing pin and the pistol in better light.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Chip, Excellent! Your pistol went through some sort of rework. It didn't come originally with this firing pin. It is typical of the Police pistols I have observed that have gone through a rework.

By any chance is there any sort of marking on the rear of the frame or bolt? Around where the lanyard staple is..

[Reef Donkey]

I will have to look a little later and get back, I don't see any marking but that could be overlooking it. Have to make an appearance at a birthday party shortly. Will get back on this after.

Thanks again,

Chip

[lugerholsterrepair]

Chip, Could be a re work mark somewhere on the pistol but maybe not too. With or without it..it's gone through an arsenal re work. The mark might indicate who did it. Either Mauser or Simson.

[mrerick]

Also, Chip, the golden color found on the trigger, take down lever and ejector is called "Strawing". It's a means of oxide finishing accomplished by heating to a very specific temperature and quenching the metal.

Your pistol was originally Rust Blued. It's hard to judge the rework finish, but it is also most likely Rust Blued.

I think you paid a decent price for a police rework. Especially for one with this particularly long history and excellent condition. The Germans took good care of their tools. So did this Luger's owner after the war.

You may find a small proof or acceptance mark that relates to the rework.

Marc

[lugerholsterrepair]

Also, Chip, the golden color found on the trigger, take down lever and ejector is called "Strawing". It's a means of oxide finishing accomplished by heating to a very specific temperature and quenching the metal.

Marc, It is not necessary to quench straw. Straw is achieved and let to cool, then oiled.

[Reef Donkey]

Thanks Jerry and Mark, the technical details interest me very much. As for the value, a weekend of fooling with the Luger had me quietly hoping the value wasn't substancially more than what was paid for it. Without the compunction to send the friend I got it from more money, there would be no need to pass it along. I have an HK SR9 on consignment at a local gun store, the thought process had already started to run toward compensating him out of that sale, had the Luger value gone higher.

After looking all over the pistol I have yet to find an unidentified marking other than the crowned G on top of the chamber. You just don't think about how many differents surfaces there are, or even how many different parts make up this weapon, until you start to looking for marks.

I haven't cleaned anything yet other than a wiping with a paper towel. Could there potentially be a mark under the grips? Could the crowned G have anything to do with the reworking?

[lugerholsterrepair]

Could the crowned G have anything to do with the reworking?

No..The Crown G is an Imperial marking done many years before the re work. It is just as likely there is no re work mark. Some were some were not. The fact of the changed out and re numbered parts tell us it was reworked and my guess is by Mauser. If it were Simson they had a habit of marking pistols with an Eagle 6 in various and sundry places.

Chip..In reviewing your photo's I just noticed something! There is what I suspect is a Simson Eagle 6 on your magazine bottom. Can you look closely at this Eagle and tell if there is a 6 beneath it? There has to be because this IS a Simson Eagle.
Also look for this same Eagle on the back flat portion of the spine of the magazine at the bottom. Ed Tinker, or Dwight Gruber would know the answer to this..the Authors of Simpson Lugers, Ed, and Police Lugers. Dwight and Ed. I don't know if the Simson Eagle would be present but please have a look.

OH..And no marking under the grips will tell us anything..mostly inspectors markings there but will be unknowns.