Need Help Identifing New Purchase

Tarheeltom · 01-16-2013, 07:36 PM

First of all, I am new to this forum. I have several lugers that I have been able to identify using Davis Standard Catalog Of Luger. Today I purchased one that I really need help with. It appears to be a DWM Commercial. It is 100% mint to the point of appearing never to have been fired. DWM toggle inscription, no chamber inscription, 9mm, 4" barrel, stock lug. Here is what baffles me: The only numbers or marks on the pistol are: 1932 with two which look like little question marks beneth on the front of the frame, crown n on the left side of the receiver, and a mark I can not make out on the left side of the front toggle link. Other than those there are no other marks or numbers anywhere exterior or interior on the gun. Any help would be most appreciated.
Thanks,
Tom

Edward Tinker · 01-16-2013, 07:59 PM

Tom, welcome to the forum

Keep in mind that Aarons book is not bad, but has many mistakes.

Can you provide pictures?

Full left, full right, markings (visible, not ones hidden).

Ed

Tarheeltom · 01-16-2013, 08:18 PM

Ed:
Yes I could send pictures but the problem is there are no markings to show other than the ones I detailed: 1938 on the front of the frame and a crown n on the side of the receiver.
Tom

Tarheeltom · 01-16-2013, 08:58 PM

Ed:
I send pictures but had to put them in a new thread.
Tom

lugerholsterrepair · 01-16-2013, 08:29 PM

Tom, Sounds re blued.

Tarheeltom · 01-16-2013, 08:47 PM

I would not think reblue - Internals are perfect.
Tom

Tarheeltom · 01-16-2013, 08:45 PM

Ed:
Attached are the pictures you requested.
Tom

alanint · 01-16-2013, 08:46 PM

Beautiful Commercial!!

Edward Tinker · 01-16-2013, 09:56 PM

No, I merged them, you can just ADD REPLY

Is there a suffix on the front of the frame ? i.e. a letter

If no, then it is likely a new made in the 1919-1920 time frame by DWM for the commercial market, the markings on it, is to be expected.

The serial number (last two) should be on the underneath of the sideplate and take down lever.

Ed

Tarheeltom · 01-16-2013, 10:24 PM

Ed: The only number on the gun is the "1932" on the frame under the barrel. Below that are two marks that look like question marks without the . I have two other commercials and understand where the numbers are on them. My question about this one is regarding the fact that is has no other numbers anywhere, exterior or interior.
Tom

lugerholsterrepair · 01-16-2013, 10:05 PM

Sweet looking 9MM commercial!

mrerick · 01-16-2013, 10:11 PM

Hi Tom, and welcome to the forum.

If you're in the Raleigh area, I'll be helping at the Gun Show at GRNC's booth and could take a close look at your Luger on Sunday.

Double check to be sure it's a 9mm Luger. A no.2 pencil should easily fit down the muzzle. If it doesn't or is tight, it's a .30 Luger caliber pistol. The barrel length looks like it may be in .30 Luger.

The serial number of your Luger is the 4 numeric digits and one script suffix letter that are on the front of the frame above the trigger guard. I can't make it out due to focus in your third picture.

This one is in a remarkable state of preservation.

Marc

Tarheeltom · 01-16-2013, 10:27 PM

Marc:
I chambered a 9mm to be sure of the caliber.
Tom

Tarheeltom · 01-16-2013, 10:30 PM

Marc:
Where are you from? I can't come to Raleigh Sunday but would love to have you look at the gun. I live just outside of Charlotte.
Tom

George Anderson · 01-16-2013, 11:12 PM

Bring it to Greensboro on the 26th. I will be set up there.

John Sabato · 01-17-2013, 10:39 AM

A very NICE commercial. Congrats!

Tarheeltom · 01-17-2013, 12:26 PM

Let me refine my questions: How uncommon is it for a DWM Commercial to only have a single serial # on the front of the receiver and no other numbers or markings anywhere, exterior or interior, except for the crown N on the left front of the receiver? Given that, how does the absence of numbers affect the value, good, bad, or indifferent?
Thanks,
Tom

Ron Wood · 01-17-2013, 12:27 PM

Really nice looking Luger. The serial number is too low for a 1920 Commercial so the "question marks without a period" almost have to be a letter suffix. It would be great if you could post a clear photo of the frame serial number and marks. I don't think that will explain the lack of any other numbering but it might help, and if nothing else it will satisfy my curiosity about the marks!

I have always maintained that all bets are off on 1920s production guns. They are all over the place on configuration and numbering. They are fairly consistent but odd variations do pop up. As far as value goes I suspect that given the gun is original finish the condition would still place the value up there with the best of the 1920 Commercials. You might have trouble convincing a buyer of that but that is my opinion. The fact that it is a 9mm is also unusual and boosts the value.

alvin · 01-17-2013, 01:08 PM

"two marks that look like question marks without the ."

sounds like suffix "n". Just a wild guess.

Tarheeltom · 01-17-2013, 01:26 PM

Alvin:
I think you are correct - after looking at your attached image of the suffix "n" that is what mine is also. 1932 with an n just below.

Ron: With that settled, the only other marks on the gun are the crown N on the left front of the receiver and what appears to be a faint crown N on the left side of the front toggle link.

From what I gather from your responces is that it is a late production commercial with no real explanation for not having the usual parts numbered.

Thanks everyone for you help.

Tom

01-16-2013, 07:36 PM	#1
Tarheeltom User Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Need Help Identifing New Purchase First of all, I am new to this forum. I have several lugers that I have been able to identify using Davis Standard Catalog Of Luger. Today I purchased one that I really need help with. It appears to be a DWM Commercial. It is 100% mint to the point of appearing never to have been fired. DWM toggle inscription, no chamber inscription, 9mm, 4" barrel, stock lug. Here is what baffles me: The only numbers or marks on the pistol are: 1932 with two which look like little question marks beneth on the front of the frame, crown n on the left side of the receiver, and a mark I can not make out on the left side of the front toggle link. Other than those there are no other marks or numbers anywhere exterior or interior on the gun. Any help would be most appreciated. Thanks, Tom

01-16-2013, 07:59 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Tom, welcome to the forum Keep in mind that Aarons book is not bad, but has many mistakes. Can you provide pictures? Full left, full right, markings (visible, not ones hidden). Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-16-2013, 08:18 PM	#3
Tarheeltom User Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Need Help With New Purchase Ed: Yes I could send pictures but the problem is there are no markings to show other than the ones I detailed: 1938 on the front of the frame and a crown n on the side of the receiver. Tom

01-16-2013, 08:29 PM	#5
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Tom, Sounds re blued. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

01-16-2013, 08:45 PM	#7
Tarheeltom User Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Need Help With New Purchase Ed: Attached are the pictures you requested. Tom Attached Thumbnails

01-16-2013, 08:58 PM	#4
Tarheeltom User Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed: I send pictures but had to put them in a new thread. Tom

01-16-2013, 08:47 PM	#6
Tarheeltom User Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I would not think reblue - Internals are perfect. Tom

01-16-2013, 08:46 PM	#8
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Beautiful Commercial!!

01-16-2013, 09:56 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	No, I merged them, you can just ADD REPLY Is there a suffix on the front of the frame ? i.e. a letter If no, then it is likely a new made in the 1919-1920 time frame by DWM for the commercial market, the markings on it, is to be expected. The serial number (last two) should be on the underneath of the sideplate and take down lever. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-16-2013, 10:24 PM	#10
Tarheeltom User Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed: The only number on the gun is the "1932" on the frame under the barrel. Below that are two marks that look like question marks without the . I have two other commercials and understand where the numbers are on them. My question about this one is regarding the fact that is has no other numbers anywhere, exterior or interior. Tom

01-16-2013, 10:05 PM	#11
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Sweet looking 9MM commercial! __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

01-16-2013, 10:11 PM	#12
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Hi Tom, and welcome to the forum. If you're in the Raleigh area, I'll be helping at the Gun Show at GRNC's booth and could take a close look at your Luger on Sunday. Double check to be sure it's a 9mm Luger. A no.2 pencil should easily fit down the muzzle. If it doesn't or is tight, it's a .30 Luger caliber pistol. The barrel length looks like it may be in .30 Luger. The serial number of your Luger is the 4 numeric digits and one script suffix letter that are on the front of the frame above the trigger guard. I can't make it out due to focus in your third picture. This one is in a remarkable state of preservation. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

01-16-2013, 10:27 PM	#13
Tarheeltom User Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Marc: I chambered a 9mm to be sure of the caliber. Tom

01-16-2013, 10:30 PM	#14
Tarheeltom User Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Marc: Where are you from? I can't come to Raleigh Sunday but would love to have you look at the gun. I live just outside of Charlotte. Tom

01-16-2013, 11:12 PM	#15
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	Bring it to Greensboro on the 26th. I will be set up there.

01-17-2013, 10:39 AM	#16
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	A very NICE commercial. Congrats! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-17-2013, 12:26 PM	#17
Tarheeltom User Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Let me refine my questions: How uncommon is it for a DWM Commercial to only have a single serial # on the front of the receiver and no other numbers or markings anywhere, exterior or interior, except for the crown N on the left front of the receiver? Given that, how does the absence of numbers affect the value, good, bad, or indifferent? Thanks, Tom

01-17-2013, 12:27 PM	#18
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	Really nice looking Luger. The serial number is too low for a 1920 Commercial so the "question marks without a period" almost have to be a letter suffix. It would be great if you could post a clear photo of the frame serial number and marks. I don't think that will explain the lack of any other numbering but it might help, and if nothing else it will satisfy my curiosity about the marks! I have always maintained that all bets are off on 1920s production guns. They are all over the place on configuration and numbering. They are fairly consistent but odd variations do pop up. As far as value goes I suspect that given the gun is original finish the condition would still place the value up there with the best of the 1920 Commercials. You might have trouble convincing a buyer of that but that is my opinion. The fact that it is a 9mm is also unusual and boosts the value. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-17-2013, 01:08 PM	#19
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	"two marks that look like question marks without the ." sounds like suffix "n". Just a wild guess. Attached Images

01-17-2013, 01:26 PM	#20
Tarheeltom User Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Alvin: I think you are correct - after looking at your attached image of the suffix "n" that is what mine is also. 1932 with an n just below. Ron: With that settled, the only other marks on the gun are the crown N on the left front of the receiver and what appears to be a faint crown N on the left side of the front toggle link. From what I gather from your responces is that it is a late production commercial with no real explanation for not having the usual parts numbered. Thanks everyone for you help. Tom