1901 US Military Test Trial Lugers ?

[sheepherder]

I was browsing the November 1999 issue of The Gun Report, specifically Kenyon's Luger article. He mentions that DWM was inviting testing of the Luger and the US military ordered 1,000 for testing [pic/excerpt attached] in mid-1901.

I've never read of a 1901 test by the US. Was this a misprint/typo by Kenyon or the magazine? Were these 1,000 ever tracked?

I'm curious as to whether later researchers have lumped these 1,000 into the general category of the 1907 test trial Lugers.

I'm assuming they would have been in 7.65mm caliber...

[Edward Tinker]

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=31902

going by memory 1901 was the test of the 1000

the 45 luger was around 1907

[sheepherder]

OK, this is not an area I pay much attention to, so let me see if I have this right...The 1901 Test Trial Lugers include the 'Bannerman' Lugers that so much excitement arouses???

And the 1907 Trials were for a larger caliber handgun than the 38 caliber revolvers that were so ineffective against doped-up insurgents???

In 1901 DWM invited outside nations to test the Luger, while in 1907 it was the US military inviting manufacturers to submit handguns for testing??? Does that sound correct, in a general way???

[guns3545]

Richard,

As a collector of both Model 1911s and A1s and Lugers; although I no longer collect early Lugers, here is an effort to answer your questions.

DWM was trying to sell their newly invented Luger to countries around the world. They won their first contract, from Switzerland in 1900.

In 1900, the USA issued a call to compete for a new sidearm to virtually all the gun manufacturers of the world. Most USA manufacturers submitted designs and and 19 foreign designs. But the ONLY foreign manufacturer that actually received a contract for the 1900 Tests, conducted in 1901, was DWM. The leader and ultimate winner on the USA side was Colt with the John Browning design. This became the Model 1911.

From DWM's side, they delivered the 1000 pistols which were tested by many units including the Cavalry. They liked the accuracy but felt 7.65 mm was too light.

In 1902, DWM incorporated the Powell Indicating device into their Model 1902 gun which was 9mm, and traded 50 of the original 1000 Model 1900 test pieces for 50 Cartridge Counter models.

This was not persuasive enough to sway the USA, and then in 1904, the Ordnance Department declared that .45 cal was their choice. That killed consideration of any 9mm gun.

So DWM made a few Model 1907s demo guns in .45 cal., but when the USA Army offered them a Test contract for 200 pieces, they declined as they thought their chances were slim and besides they were nearing a contract with Germany. Thus endeth the DWM relationship with the USA Ordnance Corps.

In 1910 the Model 1900 test pistols were auctioned off and Bannerman bought 780 of them for $10 each. These are the 1900 Test Guns that everyone talks about.

In Fall of 1910, the Army issued a contract to Colt and the Model 1911 was born.

In a nutshell.

Hope this helps.

John

[Sergio Natali]

guns3545

Thanks for your short but exhaustive post, also because just like you I collect 1911 1911A1 and Lugers.

Regards.

[cirelaw]

I'm attaching Rick Clark's great research that is relevant to our discussion~ http://testluger.com/?page_id=2

[mrerick]

Here is the 1907 report on the Pistol Trials:

http://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-c...stoltrials.pdf


The NRA museum states that they have the first one (prior to the 1,000):

http://www.americas1stfreedom.org/ar...st-test-luger/

[Douglas Jr.]

Originally Posted by mrerick

The NRA museum states that they have the first one (prior to the 1,000):

http://www.americas1stfreedom.org/ar...st-test-luger/

This gun was subject of intense scrutiny in a specific topic at Jan Still's forum. No definitive proof was presented in order to confirm that this one is the FIRST US LUGER, but the question is still open.

[cirelaw]

Awesome!!!!Tks

[cirelaw]

Doug, It sounded a little fishy!! Thank You for pointing that out!