Production date help

unitedcs · 04-21-2017, 11:25 PM

Hello all, I’m trying to determine the production date of a commercial DWM ser#78963. Its all matching throughout, has brown bakelit grips and a bakelit magazine not serial numbered. I'm pretty sure the grips and mags are original to the gun as both are well worn. The mag to the right is the bakelit, the other in the magazine well looks identical but has had the base replaced with brown plastic.

Geo99 · 04-22-2017, 02:06 AM

Hello,

Why do you think this is a 1940? DWM was long out of business by 1940.
The grip panels are walnut, not bakelite or plastic.
The mag bottoms are also wood, not bakelite or plastic.

It looks like a 1920 or 1921 Commercial Luger - 9mm?
What does the top of the gun look like?

- Geo

unitedcs · 04-22-2017, 09:05 AM

I read a post somewhere on here when I searched bakelit. The only thing I'm sure of is serial numbers match, it's a 7.65 and the grips are of a brown material not wood. Could possibly be plastic but from reading here, the plastic grips were black. Thy look to be period to the gun because of the condition. The diamond pattern is nearly worn smooth on the right grip and look to have never been removed. There is nothing on top other than the DWM logo.

Sky Zero · 04-22-2017, 02:09 AM

Yes, please show us the top of the gun. Also, geo is right; DWM ceased production in 1930, I believe

Mac Cat · 04-22-2017, 09:37 AM

What's printed under the safety lever ?

unitedcs · 04-22-2017, 09:58 AM

Gesichert

unitedcs · 04-22-2017, 10:46 AM

Sorry guys- feel like an idiot, these grips are wood, just so worn smooth in places appear synthetic as does the mag base. Still trying to determine date

George Anderson · 04-22-2017, 01:56 PM

Show a photo of the crown/N on the left side of the receiver. It it's vertical the pistol is a 1923 commercial.

unitedcs · 04-22-2017, 03:08 PM

Thank you George, it is vertical.

unitedcs · 04-24-2017, 06:36 AM

Was assuming the 1923 date based on what George stated about the crown/n on the left on receiver being vertical. I suppose I need to invest in a few more ref books.

Edward Tinker · 04-22-2017, 09:44 PM

I have had grips that appeared to be wood and were plastic, but from the rear it's obvious.

Dwight Gruber · 04-23-2017, 06:09 PM

DWM Parabellum sn 78963 was produced soon after the end of WWI, well before 1921.

--Dwight

Geo99 · 04-23-2017, 11:25 PM

Yeah 100 years of oil soaked wood can look really polished. Those grips may well be original.

Regarding the dates - I was figuring it to be a 1920-1921 based on the serial number.
But how can it be a 1923 model if it was made before 1921?

- Geo

Dwight Gruber · 04-24-2017, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geo99

...how can it be a 1923 model if it was made before 1921?

Obsolete collector terminology. Better to call them post-war commercials, or five-digit commercials (distinct from the four-digit-plus-letter "Alphabet commercials" produced from 1921).

--Dwight

04-21-2017, 11:25 PM	#1
unitedcs User Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Land O Lakes, Florida Posts: 90 Thanks: 8 Thanked 30 Times in 15 Posts	Production date help Hello all, I’m trying to determine the production date of a commercial DWM ser#78963. Its all matching throughout, has brown bakelit grips and a bakelit magazine not serial numbered. I'm pretty sure the grips and mags are original to the gun as both are well worn. The mag to the right is the bakelit, the other in the magazine well looks identical but has had the base replaced with brown plastic. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by unitedcs; 04-25-2017 at 06:16 AM. Reason: corrected

04-22-2017, 02:06 AM	#2
Geo99 User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Whidbey Island WA Posts: 398 Thanks: 102 Thanked 125 Times in 74 Posts	Hello, Why do you think this is a 1940? DWM was long out of business by 1940. The grip panels are walnut, not bakelite or plastic. The mag bottoms are also wood, not bakelite or plastic. It looks like a 1920 or 1921 Commercial Luger - 9mm? What does the top of the gun look like? - Geo __________________ "Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie, until you can find a rock." - Will Rogers

04-22-2017, 09:05 AM	#3
unitedcs User Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Land O Lakes, Florida Posts: 90 Thanks: 8 Thanked 30 Times in 15 Posts	I read a post somewhere on here when I searched bakelit. The only thing I'm sure of is serial numbers match, it's a 7.65 and the grips are of a brown material not wood. Could possibly be plastic but from reading here, the plastic grips were black. Thy look to be period to the gun because of the condition. The diamond pattern is nearly worn smooth on the right grip and look to have never been removed. There is nothing on top other than the DWM logo. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by unitedcs; 04-22-2017 at 09:06 AM. Reason: add pictures

04-23-2017, 11:25 PM	#13
Geo99 User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Whidbey Island WA Posts: 398 Thanks: 102 Thanked 125 Times in 74 Posts	Yeah 100 years of oil soaked wood can look really polished. Those grips may well be original. Regarding the dates - I was figuring it to be a 1920-1921 based on the serial number. But how can it be a 1923 model if it was made before 1921? - Geo __________________ "Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie, until you can find a rock." - Will Rogers

04-22-2017, 02:09 AM	#4
Sky Zero User Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Michigan Posts: 308 Thanks: 134 Thanked 43 Times in 30 Posts	Yes, please show us the top of the gun. Also, geo is right; DWM ceased production in 1930, I believe

04-22-2017, 09:37 AM	#5
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 733 Thanks: 2,100 Thanked 610 Times in 329 Posts	What's printed under the safety lever ?

04-22-2017, 09:58 AM	#6
unitedcs User Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Land O Lakes, Florida Posts: 90 Thanks: 8 Thanked 30 Times in 15 Posts	Gesichert

04-22-2017, 10:46 AM	#7
unitedcs User Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Land O Lakes, Florida Posts: 90 Thanks: 8 Thanked 30 Times in 15 Posts	Sorry guys- feel like an idiot, these grips are wood, just so worn smooth in places appear synthetic as does the mag base. Still trying to determine date

04-22-2017, 01:56 PM	#8
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	Show a photo of the crown/N on the left side of the receiver. It it's vertical the pistol is a 1923 commercial.

04-22-2017, 03:08 PM	#9
unitedcs User Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Land O Lakes, Florida Posts: 90 Thanks: 8 Thanked 30 Times in 15 Posts	Thank you George, it is vertical.

04-24-2017, 06:36 AM	#10
unitedcs User Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Land O Lakes, Florida Posts: 90 Thanks: 8 Thanked 30 Times in 15 Posts	Was assuming the 1923 date based on what George stated about the crown/n on the left on receiver being vertical. I suppose I need to invest in a few more ref books.

04-22-2017, 09:44 PM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	I have had grips that appeared to be wood and were plastic, but from the rear it's obvious.

04-23-2017, 06:09 PM	#12
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	DWM Parabellum sn 78963 was produced soon after the end of WWI, well before 1921. --Dwight