Ebay item # 2190561143 ww#1 holster

lugerlou · 09-05-2003, 12:33 AM

All,does anyone have knowledge of the medallion attached to the holster,personally I have not seen before but that does not rule out it's authenticity. All help appreciated and thankyou in advance.

PS. could someone provide link to Ebay so others can view.

ADMIN: Actually, you can just copy the link at the top of your page in the ADDRESS area, then just paste it directly here, the computer server of John D., will make it an URL

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2190561143

Ron Wood · 09-05-2003, 01:10 AM

I can't be absolutely sure from the picture, but it looks like an ordinary Prussian kokarde from a WWI soft cap that someone has attached to the holster. It is not original to the holster.

Ron Wood · 09-05-2003, 01:16 AM

Here is a picture of a Prussian enlisted pillbox cap kokarde. I don't think it is exactly like the one on the holster, but I think it is similar.

George Anderson · 09-05-2003, 11:46 AM

Ron, it appears to be an officer's national kokarde. The officers' differs from EM in that the second ring is German silver rather painted white and it is attached with push pins on the back. If anyone is interested in such a holster, I'll be happy to throw one together from my junk box and sell it for $500. Ha!

lugerholsterrepair · 09-05-2003, 12:29 PM

George, Ron, This attachment is actually detrimental to this holster, it does not add any value whatsoever. If these type of additions added value, Like George says, I have a drawer full of them.
Taking a quick look at this holster it could be a commercial, there is a cleaning rod pouch next to the magazine pouch..Jerry Burney

Ron Wood · 09-05-2003, 01:49 PM

Sure George, that's it. I couldn't find a picture of the officer's kokarde but I thought that's what it might be. Since I only collect "hard hats" (pickelhauben) I don't know too much about the soft variety.

Thanks Jerry, I was wondering if it might be a commercial because of the cleaning rod pouch. Couldn't think of any WWI service or country that had this holster's combination of color and pattern.

I think for the new comer, a general rule might be that any piece of hardware insignia added to a holster decreases its value. Can anyone think of any exceptions?

lugerlou · 09-05-2003, 10:25 PM

Gentlemen, thankyou for your responses, I agree with you on the value in that it detracrs amount one would want to bid,seller inferred that it was part and parcel to the holster, at least that was my opinion. I prefer to bid on original untouched items to add to my collection, and no I do not want one for 500.00 but good try.

George Anderson · 09-05-2003, 11:23 PM

Embellishing war booty with Nazi insignia was very common on WWII holsters. I can't tell you the number or variety I have seen proffered by old vets. Always, it seems, with tales of "takin' it from a dead Nazi officer; he didn't need it no more" the neat thing about the subject piece is that it's the first WWI embellished holster I have seen. So called "hate belts" are common, but never seen a holster

Aaron · 09-05-2003, 11:49 PM

I would think the value would be enhanced if there was an SS chained dagger attached.

Navy · 09-06-2003, 12:18 AM

All,
As an example, I have in my collection a nice voegels holster with a Heer cap eagle inserted through the bucket and a braided leather tie-down thong through a neat hole made in the bottom edge of the barrel. Inscribed very neatly in blue ink and a fine hand "Taken from a German officer, Worms Germany (Date)" and signed by the NCO who brought it back. To me, this is a bona fide artifact of American Military history and it has equal significance and historic value to any minty military holster. My dad said he and most of his mates did this as a matter of routine as they blazed across Europe with that wild man, Georgie Patton. Seems to me, these holsters should be considered as sacred relics of the last Great Crusade, monetary value not being a part of the picture.

My zwei pfennigs.
Tom A.

lugerholsterrepair · 09-06-2003, 02:26 PM

Gentlemen, My Former Brother in Arms has brought up an interesting thought.What he says is quite true. However, like any antiquity one must be careful to establish provenance. Or, if this trend were to continue to be popular and profitable all sorts of good holsters might fall prey to pin stickers. Actually, holsters with emblems attached are not seen very often, at least by me. More often one sees names written in or scratched on. I suspect this might be because it is not all that easy to penetrate the thick leather of a Luger holster top with a pin intended to go through cloth...Jerry Burney

Herb · 09-07-2003, 07:02 PM

I think that the 'emblem' shown in the photo is what I call 'pips' worn on the enlisted field cap and in the center of the officer cap emblem as shown in these photos
http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/enl.JPG
http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/off.JPG

George Anderson · 09-07-2003, 08:17 PM

Herb, "pips" refer to insignia of rank used by the Brits. The subject insignia is a Kokarde or cockade. A national symbol similar in purpose to what French revolutionaries wore in 1789 or what the Allies used to I.D. aircraft in WWI and WWII.

Herb · 09-07-2003, 09:14 PM

George, whatever, I think the photos speak for themselves.

09-05-2003, 01:10 AM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	I can't be absolutely sure from the picture, but it looks like an ordinary Prussian kokarde from a WWI soft cap that someone has attached to the holster. It is not original to the holster. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-05-2003, 01:16 AM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Here is a picture of a Prussian enlisted pillbox cap kokarde. I don't think it is exactly like the one on the holster, but I think it is similar. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-05-2003, 12:29 PM	#5
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	George, Ron, This attachment is actually detrimental to this holster, it does not add any value whatsoever. If these type of additions added value, Like George says, I have a drawer full of them. Taking a quick look at this holster it could be a commercial, there is a cleaning rod pouch next to the magazine pouch..Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-05-2003, 01:49 PM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Sure George, that's it. I couldn't find a picture of the officer's kokarde but I thought that's what it might be. Since I only collect "hard hats" (pickelhauben) I don't know too much about the soft variety. Thanks Jerry, I was wondering if it might be a commercial because of the cleaning rod pouch. Couldn't think of any WWI service or country that had this holster's combination of color and pattern. I think for the new comer, a general rule might be that any piece of hardware insignia added to a holster decreases its value. Can anyone think of any exceptions? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-06-2003, 02:26 PM	#11
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Gentlemen, My Former Brother in Arms has brought up an interesting thought.What he says is quite true. However, like any antiquity one must be careful to establish provenance. Or, if this trend were to continue to be popular and profitable all sorts of good holsters might fall prey to pin stickers. Actually, holsters with emblems attached are not seen very often, at least by me. More often one sees names written in or scratched on. I suspect this might be because it is not all that easy to penetrate the thick leather of a Luger holster top with a pin intended to go through cloth...Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-05-2003, 12:33 AM	#1
lugerlou User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ebay item # 2190561143 ww#1 holster All,does anyone have knowledge of the medallion attached to the holster,personally I have not seen before but that does not rule out it's authenticity. All help appreciated and thankyou in advance. PS. could someone provide link to Ebay so others can view. ADMIN: Actually, you can just copy the link at the top of your page in the ADDRESS area, then just paste it directly here, the computer server of John D., will make it an URL http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2190561143

09-05-2003, 11:46 AM	#4
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	Ron, it appears to be an officer's national kokarde. The officers' differs from EM in that the second ring is German silver rather painted white and it is attached with push pins on the back. If anyone is interested in such a holster, I'll be happy to throw one together from my junk box and sell it for $500. Ha!

09-05-2003, 10:25 PM	#7
lugerlou User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Gentlemen, thankyou for your responses, I agree with you on the value in that it detracrs amount one would want to bid,seller inferred that it was part and parcel to the holster, at least that was my opinion. I prefer to bid on original untouched items to add to my collection, and no I do not want one for 500.00 but good try.

09-05-2003, 11:23 PM	#8
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	Embellishing war booty with Nazi insignia was very common on WWII holsters. I can't tell you the number or variety I have seen proffered by old vets. Always, it seems, with tales of "takin' it from a dead Nazi officer; he didn't need it no more" the neat thing about the subject piece is that it's the first WWI embellished holster I have seen. So called "hate belts" are common, but never seen a holster

09-05-2003, 11:49 PM	#9
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	I would think the value would be enhanced if there was an SS chained dagger attached.

09-06-2003, 12:18 AM	#10
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	All, As an example, I have in my collection a nice voegels holster with a Heer cap eagle inserted through the bucket and a braided leather tie-down thong through a neat hole made in the bottom edge of the barrel. Inscribed very neatly in blue ink and a fine hand "Taken from a German officer, Worms Germany (Date)" and signed by the NCO who brought it back. To me, this is a bona fide artifact of American Military history and it has equal significance and historic value to any minty military holster. My dad said he and most of his mates did this as a matter of routine as they blazed across Europe with that wild man, Georgie Patton. Seems to me, these holsters should be considered as sacred relics of the last Great Crusade, monetary value not being a part of the picture. My zwei pfennigs. Tom A.

09-07-2003, 07:02 PM	#12
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I think that the 'emblem' shown in the photo is what I call 'pips' worn on the enlisted field cap and in the center of the officer cap emblem as shown in these photos http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/enl.JPG http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/off.JPG __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

09-07-2003, 08:17 PM	#13
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	Herb, "pips" refer to insignia of rank used by the Brits. The subject insignia is a Kokarde or cockade. A national symbol similar in purpose to what French revolutionaries wore in 1789 or what the Allies used to I.D. aircraft in WWI and WWII.

09-07-2003, 09:14 PM	#14
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	George, whatever, I think the photos speak for themselves. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull