I'd help WWII bring back 16" barrel

[Gatorade]

Ineed some help here guys. My grandfather brought back a Luger from WWII. I thought it was an artillery model but he always said it was a Luger rifle. I got a chance to get a look at it today and it has a 16" barrel with a wood fore end that runs the length of the barrel.

So it is much longer than a standard artillery Luger. I tried a google search and found a similar barrel for sale on gunbroker. I saw a few pics in the archive that looked similar but they just had the wood like a sporter fore end with checkering that didn't extend the full way. I didn't get any pics. No I am not the one who will inherit it buti think it is a great piece and wanted to learn more about it so I could let him know the value of it.

[alanint]

Welcome to the Forum!

Your pistol never left the factory with the barrel that it has. These 16" barrels with the full length wood handguards were offered in the 60-70s by various vendors, including Sarco and Numrich Arms. They were meant to allow you to place a stock on your Luger legally to create a carbine.

[Gatorade]

That would explain the other upper he had in the case. He had another upper with a standard looking barrel in the case as well. I am going to have to wait till I get some pics because it seems
Like he has an original artillery Luger that he may have added some parts to it. He insists he has everything that he brought back but I know he bought some other accessories for it along the line.

Thanks for the info.

Charlie

[kmichaels90]

Originally Posted by alanint

Welcome to the Forum!

Your pistol never left the factory with the barrel that it has. These 16" barrels with the full legth wood handgaurds were offered in the 60-70s by various vendors, including Sarco and Numrich Arms. They were meant to allow you to place a stock on your Luger legally to create a carbine.

How could it be a barrel from the 60's or 70's if his grandfather brought it back that way in WWII. Also I have a letter from the atf (they made a bunch of copies for a local gunshop last year), and it states that all c96 mausers, lugers, and inglis highpowers are exempt from needing a tax stamp for the shoulder stock. Because they have been grandfathered in under the law.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by kmichaels90

Also I have a letter from the atf (they made a bunch of copies for a local gunshop last year), and it states that all c96 mausers, lugers, and inglis highpowers are exempt from needing a tax stamp for the shoulder stock. Because they have been grandfathered in under the law.

Could you please post a hi-resolution scan of that letter? We would all appreciate it!

Thank you for your help!

[alvin]

ATF exemption was a recent event (1984?). From 1934 GCA through 1984, fifty year it's illegal to attach stock to pistol in the U.S., unless it's registered. That's history now, if the pistol is exempted in C&R list. Certain rules still apply though, e.g. stock, if not original, must be similar to original one -- that's very subjective, no detail spec.

[kmichaels90]

Originally Posted by alvin

ATF exemption was a recent event (1984?). From 1934 GCA through 1984, fifty year it's illegal to attach stock to pistol in the U.S., unless it's registered. That's history now, if the pistol is exempted in C&R list. Certain rules still apply though, e.g. stock, if not original, must be similar to original one -- that's very subjective, no detail spec.

That makes snese It did make mention of the fact that the stock had to be similar to original. Not just whatever you could cobble together.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by kmichaels90

That makes snese It did make mention of the fact that the stock had to be similar to original. Not just whatever you could cobble together.

We would appreciate the scan of the letter regardless, if you could.

[kmichaels90]

I currently do not have access to a scanner. Though I did see a similar letter here on this site, not sure where it was though.

[Ron Wood]

It was probably this one


DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20226

MAY 29 1981

T:T:F:CHB
7540
Dr.
Odin international
Fairfax, VA

Dear Dr. :

This refers to your letters of March 13 and March 30, 1981, in
which you ask that certain Luger and Browning Hi-Power pistols
equipped with reproduction shoulder stocks be considered for
removal from the provisions of the National Firearms Act.

It is not the policy of this Bureau to render a classification on
a shoulder stock which in and of itself is not subject to the
provisions of the Gun Control Act or the NFA. However, as you are
aware, certain Luger and Browning Hi-Power pistols when accompanied
by original shoulder stocks have been removed from the purview of
the NFA.

Our Firearms Classification Panel has examined your request and it
is their opinion that the above mentioned pistols equipped with
currently made reproduction shoulder stocks which either duplicate
or closely approximate the dimensions and configuration of the
original stocks would also be primarily of interest to collectors
and not likely to be used as weapons. Therefore, any Luger or
Browning Hi-Power pistol which would be removed from the purview of
the NFA if equipped with an original shoulder stock, would also not
be subject to the NFA if equipped with a reproduction shoulder
stock which either duplicates or closely approximates the
dimensions and configuration of the original stock.

It must be pointed out that should one of the subject reproduction
stocks be attached to any handgun which has not been specifically
removed from the purview of the NFA with an original stock, the
combination would be subject to all of the registration and
transfer provisions of the NFA.

We trust that the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry.
If we can be of any further assistance, please contact us.

Sincerely yours,

[signed]
C. Michael Hoffman
Assistant Director
(Technical and Scientific Services)

[ithacaartist]

Charlie,

Please post hi-res pics of everything you can, whenever you can. I'm curious to see the extra upper and whatever accessories or modifications relating to them you can document, all the markings wherever they appear, etc. The forum members can help figure out just what you have, whether it's OK to install and use the rear stock, etc. The bbl for an Artillery model would have been 8", with an adjustable leaf sight on the breech end. This would likely be legal to use (I think the serial # would have to fall within the range of the Artilleries' manufacture.), but if it's another length, then likely it would not, per the letter posted above.

David Parker

[alanint]

Originally Posted by kmichaels90

How could it be a barrel from the 60's or 70's if his grandfather brought it back that way in WWII. Also I have a letter from the atf (they made a bunch of copies for a local gunshop last year), and it states that all c96 mausers, lugers, and inglis highpowers are exempt from needing a tax stamp for the shoulder stock. Because they have been grandfathered in under the law.

Because Grandad simply DID NOT bring the gun in this configuration back from WW2. No gun ever left a Luger factory with a 16" barrel, regardless of family history or lore.
The 16" barrels were produced at the time I mentioned to create a carbine from a 4" barrelled Luger, not to ruin an original Artillery or Navy. It was the only way to create a Carbine cheaply and legally.,

Your mention of the ATF ruling, (which is not news to anybody on this forum), has no bearing on this case.