Luger 45 ACP Project

[LugerMan.com]

What killed the price in our case was the fact , that number of orders was not as expected...

We were hoping to get 100 to 200 orders the first year and that was goign to help expend and streamline the process,

Not having more capital and not sure of future orders, meany steps of manufacturing stayed hand involved for the luck of the better term, and been labor intensive, we are unable to keep the low price.

First 50 were no profit , and in hopes to increase numbers, it stayed low, second year looks about the same as the first,

So we had 2 different directions, stop production or continue with some profit to make operations somewhat profitable.

For now we selected option 2, as we are not giving up hope,
and realize that with only about 6 month of publicity and advertisement, volume may change a bit,

if that happens, we promise to bring prices down, but for now, they will only be goign up from year to year.

Our gall is to make as meany Lugers as we can, but we got to eat , while doing that.

But with all that sad, we do not want to go a car manufacturing approach, of get the product out there and fix problems later, not with guns and not under our watch.

Even with close inspections we still find small problems making it's way in to a enduser,

we only test with 200-300 rounds after all.

And we thank everyone for there feedback, that helps us improve and make the product better.


More guns coming up....

[Lugerdoc]

Eugene, As I recall John Martz used Sig 220 mags that he had GT modify for the luger. TH

[LugerMan.com]

How meany of you will by the gun if the mags are one part bent sheet metal and will not look correct for the 1907 trials.

Even if it make the gun $500-600 cheaper ?

And mags will probably will have to be 6 shot at that point

[DonVoigt]

Eugene,
I'd buy "spare" mags at the lower price.

We all understand the need to eat, but don't blame your potential customers for not buying 100 more lugers!

I understand your need for "volume"; but truthfully with your reputation for delay, non-communication, and not meeting shipment commitments- you must understand by folks are not lined up to buy a .45 luger at any price- be it $5k or $7k.

Sorry to be so blunt- I'm very happy with my .45 luger and your work is top notch!

[LugerMan.com]

It was not so much blaming...

But more of stating of the facts ...

I am hoping that , in conversation amongst friends for the most parts ;0) .

I can be frank, without pointing fingers and assigning blame ;0)
Or worrying to be misunderstood.

I simply wish... for more orders ;0)

And hope that putting all my funds and abilities out there to keep Luger history alive... be meat with more enthusiasm then it was...

I simply overestimated, number of luger collectors that were willing or have an ability to spend the money on something they can not find anywhere else ;0) for 5K or 7K for that matter


No hard fillings of any kind...

This forum supported me and the product, and I am grateful for that.

And I hope that need to do the work ( as a preference), over the need to keep up perfect communication is somewhat understood, if not appreciated...

We make ourselves and product better every day .. or at least try ;0)

[JTD]

Eugene, I figured once you got the back log caught up, I would be in the market, when I could drive down, buy it and drive home with it. 7k just killed that idea. The people interested in them are for the most part shooters, not big wallet collectors, and believe you just doomed the project. As stated, 7 thousand buys a lot of original luger. I think all the slow sales are due to lead times of over a year. Now I will wait until the ones out there start showing up in the used gun market, or get the chance to shoot one, and just get it out of my system. As time goes by, the thrill of having one diminishes. I do give you much credit for taking on such a task, and succeeding so well in making a reliable, and previously affordable 45 luger. John

[LugerMan.com]

I do understand that for some people 5 vs 7 make a difference.

But i also know hat for past 6 month, we have been selling them for 6K and lots of people order boxes and 3ed mag making the purchase very close to 7K.

But it is not about money at this point, but about keeping a project alive in a current state.

At 7K I can get some profit, so i can draw a salary after of 2 years of no profit.,
at 6K I am paying for shop costs and not much else.

I waited 2 years to get profit, from it, it's not fun anymore.
It has to make money, or we are going to kill the project.

It is still 1/2 the price of only one other option on the market.

I got my joy out of making the only working 45 Luger on the market ... time to play with other toys

[rammercmc]

Eugene,

If for the past 6 months you have been selling them for 6,000, how about taking care of the original members here who helped you get started with this project. ! Still waiting on my BABY 45 !! You post here but never give answers when members ask, so when can I expect my LUGER ?

Rick

[DonVoigt]

"It is still 1/2 the price of only one other option on the market."

And what is the other option ?

[Ron Wood]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

"It is still 1/2 the price of only one other option on the market."

And what is the other option ?

Could be Krause or Nedbal-Werle

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

Could be Krause or Nedbal-Werle

I didn't know Krause was still doing conversions, and Werle would be a bear to import.
And neither is a 1907 clone.

Unfortunately, or fortunately- depending on your opinion- no one really "needs" a 1907 luger clone- plenty of other .45 autos, and one off or Martz .45 lugers are available on the secondary market.

Personally, I'm a little surprised Eugene was able to sell 100 1907 clones. That is 1/2 a million $ worth of lugers!

[2bnag]

I doubt that any one mag fired even close to 9000 rounds through it. That would mean there was only one mag used for s/n 4. In the videos I have seen the shooter usually has 3 mags. Even if the mag lasted for "only" 3000 rounds, that is undoubtedly more than nearly any shooter will put through their Luger. I have probably shot fewer than 4000 rounds through my Thompson, and I have around 20 mags, so the round count per mag is actually pretty low.
If the magazines are potentially project killers, it might be time to outsource them to Mecgar, or another manufacturer...Bill

[2bnag]

And, for the record, ignoring someone's emails is just plain rude...Bill

[Ron Wood]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

I didn't know Krause was still doing conversions, and Werle would be a bear to import.
And neither is a 1907 clone.

Krause's is a 1907 clone. Eugene used the blueprints and measurements he purchased from Krause to create his guns. I don't think Krause is still making his guns but they do come up for resale from time to time and usually for a five-figure price.

[rammercmc]

Eugene,

still waiting to hear from you !

You made a baby 45 for yourself so sell it to me and make another for yourself.

Found my posting here when I had ordered one so shooul have been in the second batch to go out.

[LugerMan.com]

I did not think about the multiple magazines per gun, silly me,

So the math is 9000 true the gun, 2 mags were with it originally, and probably have 3500-4000 each true them,
and one mag was replaced about 1/2 way , so another 1500-2500 on it.

I's not just about how meany rounds, gone thru the mags,

I have several competition shooters that will use the guns in a race,
I am trying to make better product,

Mags were a pain the first time around, and look like a pain the next time around, so we try to change process a little to make it easier.

[LugerMan.com]

We tried outsourcing to
MacGar first.

Fortunately we way back with

gregcotellc.com

He has a direct relationship with Mac-Gar factory.

There answer was they need a 1000 units order at 25-30 a mag to tool up for it,

so I needed to shell out 25000 green once without knowing if they going to work or not and god knows how long of a turn around it will be , because they are booked about a year ahead.

Sop that idea took a dive.

Then I approached Triple-K, there product is of a lesser qualety, but i figure a close watch can fix little problems there mags have,

But there answer was very similar and made even less scene at that point.

So we are back to making our own mags.

[LugerMan.com]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

I didn't know Krause was still doing conversions, and Werle would be a bear to import.
And neither is a 1907 clone.

Unfortunately, or fortunately- depending on your opinion- no one really "needs" a 1907 luger clone- plenty of other .45 autos, and one off or Martz .45 lugers are available on the secondary market.

Personally, I'm a little surprised Eugene was able to sell 100 1907 clones. That is 1/2 a million $ worth of lugers!

Need is a strong word,

So i guess I do not need 10 lugers in my collection and 8 Webleys and 4 Cone hummer broomahndles.

I do not need them.

Just as much as I do not need #1 and #2 Luger 1907 45s we made.

No one NEEDS it...

But here we are in a 2nd year of production with 7 guns unspoken for.

I am sure 4 or 5 clients that ordered 2 guns each, desperately need one for each hand ;0)

And a 10mm carbine that is on order is a desperately needed for hunting, because a man needs to put food on the table after all ;0)

[LugerMan.com]

First Baby is staying in house...
I NEED that ...

But we will make a second one, as soon as the mag ordeal is sorted out.

Just case in point, my heat treater decided to skip a stop and did not pickup a test run of mags to heat treat, so now i am day behind from were i wanted to be...

That's what happens when you depend on other people ...

Another case of 2 guns ordered... Baby and Standard.
Both guns have been pre-fitted and one needs to be cut and grips made .

[LugerMan.com]

Originally Posted by 2bnag

And, for the record, ignoring someone's emails is just plain rude...Bill

Not ignoring...

Just 2 days behind on answering...

Imagine trying top accomplish something during the day,
been pulled apart by people walking in and my staff.

And answering 10-15 phone calls a day and about 50-60 emails...

I wish I had an extra office for a secretary...