Erfurt Artillery Luger

Alan1 · 07-10-2021, 01:35 PM

Hi. I have just received my second Artillery Luger and would appreciate your comments.
It has an interesting number on the string just below the trigger guard - 48.A.
This one with a holster and shoulder stock. The holster puzzles me a little. As you can see it is an open holster, and has a long strap which I am not sure what it is for.

spangy · 07-10-2021, 02:24 PM

Nice gun Alan1 ... I love all Lugers but Artillery's are my soft spot.
I have a few questions regarding the gun however and wonder if you could post some HI-Res images of the stamps and markings.
Being an Erfurt they should be everywhere.

The holster is not original to this gun but rather modified to fit this rig.
It appears to be a modified 1100 Series Snap Off Belt Holster or similar.
The long strap is simply for holding the gun in the holster.
https://www.huntercompany.com/produc...rs-1100-series.

The '48.A.' is possibly a unit marking like the 48th Artillery unit etc but normally unit marks contain much more information.
I have never seen a similar marking but I'm sure someone here will be able to nail it down.

Mac Cat · 07-10-2021, 04:36 PM

The serial number is on the front of the frame. It looks like 5800 with no suffix. It also looks like it's been buffed, so it may be re-blued.

Does the stock fit the lug on the pistol ?

Alan1 · 07-12-2021, 08:05 AM

Thank you for your comments, greatly appreciated.
There are plenty of marking which I have tried to get good shots of.
Another interesting number "8.82" is just behind the serial number on the underside of the barrel?

There is no suffix with the serial number on the frame.
The stock fits perfectly though there is no number on the stock. Are they normally numbered?
From what I have learnt on this forum it does not look to me as if it has been re-blued. There is, however, quite a bit of holster wear at certain points and I now understand why the holster is a tight fit. It does look like this holster has been with the luger for a long time.

Karl · 07-12-2021, 10:30 AM

Your artie has the unusual script W below the trigger guard. See Still, Central Powers Pistols, Table 9.

KFS

spangy · 07-12-2021, 10:33 AM

Thanks for the additional photos Alan.

8.82 is the gauge marking or the distance between the barrel lands.
Lands are the raised portion between groves. Groves are the lowered portion in between lands.
The distance between the groves is 9mm, the distance between the lands is 8.82mm.

A guns stock is normally numbered to the gun but like magazines the chaos of war usually makes this marriage lasting unlikely.

Like Mac Cat says the gun does appear to be buffed in places and is likely at least partially re-blued .
Maybe just cold blue touch ups ... hard to say without literally seeing the gun.
The lack of a 'suffix' to your serial number means your Arty was amongst the 1st 10,000 made.
I have a 1914 Erfurt Artillery as well, 6051 w/no suffix.

Bottom line Alan is your gun is beautiful and I would be proud to own it as I'm sure you are.

Mac Cat · 07-12-2021, 10:47 AM

Thanks for the better pictures - that's one of the challenges !

spangy · 07-12-2021, 11:04 AM

Hi Karl
I also took notice of the 'W' script below the trigger guard.
I have no idea what it's significance is ??
I have seen it before... sadly I do not have a copy of Still's Central Powers Pistols.
Can you tell us please what this mark is ??
Thanks

Karl · 07-12-2021, 11:15 AM

Spangy,

The meaning of the mark is unknown. Still suggests that it may indicate subcontractor work. It is interesting that the two of the three such marks recorded on Erfurt lugers are on LP08s.

KFS

Ron Wood · 07-12-2021, 01:06 PM

As has been said, it is difficult to evaluate without gun in hand, but I would be very reluctant at this point to say it has been refinished or touched up in any way. Looks good to me.
Ron

Piet · 07-12-2021, 03:19 PM

Could the marking of 48.A. on the front strap be the beginning of a unit marking, but not completed?

rhuff · 07-12-2021, 04:06 PM

I am pretty sure that I am seeing halos on the numbers of the barrel.

Edward Tinker · 07-12-2021, 05:39 PM

The gun is in South Africa.... So marking could be totally different than folks are used to.

Also, many 'interim" markings are like this, a letter or two and a couple of numbers. As an example, in a smaller unit, they all know that the GQ.36 (or whatever) is for that unit and no other.
The long unit markings are to get the gun back to a unit in a war time setting, i.e. lots of units involved in the action.

Alan1 · 07-14-2021, 02:59 PM

Wow. Thank you all

Doug G. · 12-12-2021, 12:51 AM

Just pulled my 1914 Erfurt out of the safe. No W mark under the trigger guard. Although mine has the RC marking.

roadkill1 · 12-12-2021, 11:31 AM

The "48.A." unit marking would be correct if this was assigned to the staff of that regiment. However, you would expect to see a "waffen number" at the end of this marking. Having said that, seems to me we have had a few unit markings without this "final number".

This is a very interesting pistol.......congrats.

Ron

07-10-2021, 01:35 PM	#1
Alan1 User Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Bela-Bela, South Africa Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 38 Times in 7 Posts	Erfurt Artillery Luger Hi. I have just received my second Artillery Luger and would appreciate your comments. It has an interesting number on the string just below the trigger guard - 48.A. This one with a holster and shoulder stock. The holster puzzles me a little. As you can see it is an open holster, and has a long strap which I am not sure what it is for. Attached Thumbnails

07-10-2021, 02:24 PM	#2
spangy Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 617 Thanks: 3,065 Thanked 1,057 Times in 429 Posts	Nice gun Alan1 ... I love all Lugers but Artillery's are my soft spot. I have a few questions regarding the gun however and wonder if you could post some HI-Res images of the stamps and markings. Being an Erfurt they should be everywhere. The holster is not original to this gun but rather modified to fit this rig. It appears to be a modified 1100 Series Snap Off Belt Holster or similar. The long strap is simply for holding the gun in the holster. https://www.huntercompany.com/produc...rs-1100-series. The '48.A.' is possibly a unit marking like the 48th Artillery unit etc but normally unit marks contain much more information. I have never seen a similar marking but I'm sure someone here will be able to nail it down. __________________ Whoever said that "money can't buy you happiness" never bought a Luger. WTB - Take Down Lever & Trigger Plate (#90) for an Imperial Artillery.

07-12-2021, 08:05 AM	#4
Alan1 User Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Bela-Bela, South Africa Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 38 Times in 7 Posts	Thank you for your comments, greatly appreciated. There are plenty of marking which I have tried to get good shots of. Another interesting number "8.82" is just behind the serial number on the underside of the barrel? There is no suffix with the serial number on the frame. The stock fits perfectly though there is no number on the stock. Are they normally numbered? From what I have learnt on this forum it does not look to me as if it has been re-blued. There is, however, quite a bit of holster wear at certain points and I now understand why the holster is a tight fit. It does look like this holster has been with the luger for a long time. Attached Thumbnails

07-12-2021, 10:33 AM	#6
spangy Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 617 Thanks: 3,065 Thanked 1,057 Times in 429 Posts	Thanks for the additional photos Alan. 8.82 is the gauge marking or the distance between the barrel lands. Lands are the raised portion between groves. Groves are the lowered portion in between lands. The distance between the groves is 9mm, the distance between the lands is 8.82mm. A guns stock is normally numbered to the gun but like magazines the chaos of war usually makes this marriage lasting unlikely. Like Mac Cat says the gun does appear to be buffed in places and is likely at least partially re-blued . Maybe just cold blue touch ups ... hard to say without literally seeing the gun. The lack of a 'suffix' to your serial number means your Arty was amongst the 1st 10,000 made. I have a 1914 Erfurt Artillery as well, 6051 w/no suffix. Bottom line Alan is your gun is beautiful and I would be proud to own it as I'm sure you are. __________________ Whoever said that "money can't buy you happiness" never bought a Luger. WTB - Take Down Lever & Trigger Plate (#90) for an Imperial Artillery.

07-12-2021, 11:04 AM	#8
spangy Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 617 Thanks: 3,065 Thanked 1,057 Times in 429 Posts	Hi Karl I also took notice of the 'W' script below the trigger guard. I have no idea what it's significance is ?? I have seen it before... sadly I do not have a copy of Still's Central Powers Pistols. Can you tell us please what this mark is ?? Thanks __________________ Whoever said that "money can't buy you happiness" never bought a Luger. WTB - Take Down Lever & Trigger Plate (#90) for an Imperial Artillery.

07-10-2021, 04:36 PM	#3
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 733 Thanks: 2,100 Thanked 610 Times in 329 Posts	The serial number is on the front of the frame. It looks like 5800 with no suffix. It also looks like it's been buffed, so it may be re-blued. Does the stock fit the lug on the pistol ?

07-12-2021, 10:30 AM	#5
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 522 Thanks: 0 Thanked 271 Times in 118 Posts	Your artie has the unusual script W below the trigger guard. See Still, Central Powers Pistols, Table 9. KFS

07-12-2021, 10:47 AM	#7
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 733 Thanks: 2,100 Thanked 610 Times in 329 Posts	Thanks for the better pictures - that's one of the challenges !

07-12-2021, 11:15 AM	#9
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 522 Thanks: 0 Thanked 271 Times in 118 Posts	Spangy, The meaning of the mark is unknown. Still suggests that it may indicate subcontractor work. It is interesting that the two of the three such marks recorded on Erfurt lugers are on LP08s. KFS

07-12-2021, 01:06 PM	#10
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	As has been said, it is difficult to evaluate without gun in hand, but I would be very reluctant at this point to say it has been refinished or touched up in any way. Looks good to me. Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-12-2021, 03:19 PM	#11
Piet User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: South Africa Posts: 143 Thanks: 155 Thanked 35 Times in 22 Posts	Could the marking of 48.A. on the front strap be the beginning of a unit marking, but not completed?

07-12-2021, 04:06 PM	#12
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,291 Thanks: 2,709 Thanked 972 Times in 717 Posts	I am pretty sure that I am seeing halos on the numbers of the barrel. __________________ Need DWM breechblock #21

07-12-2021, 05:39 PM	#13
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	The gun is in South Africa.... So marking could be totally different than folks are used to. Also, many 'interim" markings are like this, a letter or two and a couple of numbers. As an example, in a smaller unit, they all know that the GQ.36 (or whatever) is for that unit and no other. The long unit markings are to get the gun back to a unit in a war time setting, i.e. lots of units involved in the action.

07-14-2021, 02:59 PM	#14
Alan1 User Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Bela-Bela, South Africa Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 38 Times in 7 Posts	Wow. Thank you all

12-12-2021, 12:51 AM	#15
Doug G. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 713 Thanks: 1 Thanked 53 Times in 17 Posts	Just pulled my 1914 Erfurt out of the safe. No W mark under the trigger guard. Although mine has the RC marking. __________________ Suppose you were an idiot.....and suppose you were a member of Congress.....But I repeat myself" ~~ Mark Twain

12-12-2021, 11:31 AM	#16
roadkill1 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Virginia Posts: 127 Thanks: 166 Thanked 129 Times in 63 Posts	The "48.A." unit marking would be correct if this was assigned to the staff of that regiment. However, you would expect to see a "waffen number" at the end of this marking. Having said that, seems to me we have had a few unit markings without this "final number". This is a very interesting pistol.......congrats. Ron