1944 and 1945 dated Krieghoff Lugers in the 13000 sn range

Jan C Still · 06-20-2008, 01:59 AM

1944 and 1945 dated Krieghoff Lugers in the 13000 sn range
Ã¢??The Krieghoff military range may be described as split by a missing serial block (12000 serial range). On either side of this missing block is a set of weapons, each having dissimilar traits.Ã¢?Â(Gibson page 60). Four 1944 dated Krieghoff Lugers are reported in the 13010-13088 serial range and another 9 dated 1945 are found in the 13099-13158 serial range. These late Lugers are Ã¢??unique and display physical and markings features peculiar to themselves as a group.Ã¢?Â (Gibson page 60)

Have any of these unique 1944 and 1945 dated Krieghoffs in the 13000 serial range been found outside the United States? I would appreciate hearing from Luger collectors that have knowledge of such Lugers. Also would like to know the opinions of Luger collectors concerning the source of these unusual Lugers.
Thanks
Jan

Navy · 06-20-2008, 09:26 PM

Jan,

I have a 1944 dated military Krieghoff that is in the 11200 range , a 1945 commercial P-0X and a Post war, but I have not heard of, nor come across any in the SN range you mention.

Tom A

Jan C Still · 06-21-2008, 01:14 AM

Tom
Thanks for the information. Some additional information in the link below:
http://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=14998

LugerVern · 06-21-2008, 04:53 AM

I am not an HK collector but here are some ideas for consideration:

It looks like Krieghoff used Mauser components to assemble at least some of the 1945 dated 13000 series guns. These components being barrels, frames and receivers: As points of reference look at the front and rear barrel bands, the rear of the frames and the Ã¢??GesichertÃ¢?Â then compare to BYF42 guns. I used the two guns shown in Ã¢??GibsonÃ¢?Â. SN 13122 & 13158

This is not all as bad as it may seem and helps explain a couple of things. We know that Krieghoff put together a few guns after the war using what ever parts were available, if we were to classify the 1945 dated, 13000 series guns as post war production this would explain the gap in production and explain why the guns only show up in the USA.

DonÃ¢??t shoot the messenger: This make a lot more since than saying Krieghoff skipped a large block of numbers for no reason at all.

Vern

Jan C Still · 06-21-2008, 12:14 PM

Vern
Thanks for the interesting information.
"DonÃ¢??t shoot the messenger:"
In reading through Gibsons Krieghoff book, I noticed how he separated the 13000 range 1944 and 1945 dated Krieghoffs from other military production. The information that I presented above is quoted directly from his book.
Jan

06-20-2008, 01:59 AM	#1
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	1944 and 1945 dated Krieghoff Lugers in the 13000 sn range 1944 and 1945 dated Krieghoff Lugers in the 13000 sn range Ã¢??The Krieghoff military range may be described as split by a missing serial block (12000 serial range). On either side of this missing block is a set of weapons, each having dissimilar traits.Ã¢?Â(Gibson page 60). Four 1944 dated Krieghoff Lugers are reported in the 13010-13088 serial range and another 9 dated 1945 are found in the 13099-13158 serial range. These late Lugers are Ã¢??unique and display physical and markings features peculiar to themselves as a group.Ã¢?Â (Gibson page 60) Have any of these unique 1944 and 1945 dated Krieghoffs in the 13000 serial range been found outside the United States? I would appreciate hearing from Luger collectors that have knowledge of such Lugers. Also would like to know the opinions of Luger collectors concerning the source of these unusual Lugers. Thanks Jan

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06-20-2008, 09:26 PM	#2
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Jan, I have a 1944 dated military Krieghoff that is in the 11200 range , a 1945 commercial P-0X and a Post war, but I have not heard of, nor come across any in the SN range you mention. Tom A

06-21-2008, 01:14 AM	#3
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	Tom Thanks for the information. Some additional information in the link below: http://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=14998

06-21-2008, 04:53 AM	#4
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	I am not an HK collector but here are some ideas for consideration: It looks like Krieghoff used Mauser components to assemble at least some of the 1945 dated 13000 series guns. These components being barrels, frames and receivers: As points of reference look at the front and rear barrel bands, the rear of the frames and the Ã¢??GesichertÃ¢?Â then compare to BYF42 guns. I used the two guns shown in Ã¢??GibsonÃ¢?Â. SN 13122 & 13158 This is not all as bad as it may seem and helps explain a couple of things. We know that Krieghoff put together a few guns after the war using what ever parts were available, if we were to classify the 1945 dated, 13000 series guns as post war production this would explain the gap in production and explain why the guns only show up in the USA. DonÃ¢??t shoot the messenger: This make a lot more since than saying Krieghoff skipped a large block of numbers for no reason at all. Vern

06-21-2008, 12:14 PM	#5
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	Vern Thanks for the interesting information. "DonÃ¢??t shoot the messenger:" In reading through Gibsons Krieghoff book, I noticed how he separated the 13000 range 1944 and 1945 dated Krieghoffs from other military production. The information that I presented above is quoted directly from his book. Jan