Screws for stock iron

[PatrickB]

The threaded part of the screws the hold the iron fitting to the wood on my artillary stock are broken off. I bought some screws that looked right at a gun show but they were an incorrect thread and would not screw into the tapped holes on the bottom of the iron. The new screws were a standard modern metric thread. Does anyone know what the correct thread form is? Better yet, does anyone know where to get correct screws?

[mrerick]

The screws that fit the grips to the frame on a Luger are an unusual British thread called "Whitworth". "BSW".

It's possible that the stock iron screws adhere to the same standard.

You can learn more about that standard here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Whitworth

Marc

[LU1900]

I have a pair avaliable if you need and don't find in USA
Price is 70$ + shipping

[Kitkat041836]

If you need a set of the right screws I would get the pair offered
you at $70.00 plus shipping as they are almost inposiable to find
the right ones for a stock iron.
Thanks,George

[lugerholsterrepair]

are broken off..That's not something I have ever seen. Were they broken off in the holes and you had to back them out or what?

I agree with George..Get em where you can find em. Their rare. If Patrice has a set you are a lucky man.

[PatrickB]

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

are broken off..That's not something I have ever seen. Were they broken off in the holes and you had to back them out or what?

I agree with George..Get em where you can find em. Their rare. If Patrice has a set you are a lucky man.

Only the bottom 1/4" or less has threads. Both bolts had the threaded portion broken off when I got the stock, and the broken pieces had already been removed. The iron was being held on only with the friction on the bolts in the wood. I didn't realize anything was wrong until I tried to tighten the iron by turning the screw heads.

I will try to contact LU1900.

[John Sabato]

May I suggest that anyone, including the OP, who owns a genuine stock iron, take it to a local hardware store and use their ability to determine the actual thread specification for the stock iron screws by trying samples of screws in the threaded portion?

This would be good information to know. Unfortunately, my Luger Blueprint CD does not include prints and specs on the stocks...

IF anyone has a genuine blueprint for the stock and associated parts, Please PM me, I would love to be able to include it in the Blueprint CD.

2nd question... does anyone who owns both a genuine stock, and a reproduction stock know if the repro screws will fit a genuine stock?

[PatrickB]

Originally Posted by John Sabato

May I suggest that anyone, including the OP, who owns a genuine stock iron, take it to a local hardware store and use their ability to determine the actual thread specification for the stock iron screws by trying samples of screws in the threaded portion?

This would be good information to know. Unfortunately, my Luger Blueprint CD does not include prints and specs on the stocks...

IF anyone has a genuine blueprint for the stock and associated parts, Please PM me, I would love to be able to include it in the Blueprint CD.

2nd question... does anyone who owns both a genuine stock, and a reproduction stock know if the repro screws will fit a genuine stock?

John-- I bought some new screws at a gun show that were supposed to be for a stock iron. They were the same configuration and length as the original screws and looked perfect. However, they were a modern metric thread and would not screw into the original iron more than 1 or 2 threads. Also, none of the usual US thread forms available at a hardware store would fit the threads. Marc's suggestion that they are Whitworth thread is probably correct. The screws I bought may have been for the reproduction stock irons.

[lugerholsterrepair]

take it to a local hardware store and use their ability to determine the actual thread specification for the stock iron screws by trying samples of screws in the threaded portion?

John, This would be a useless enterprise..I had a very knowlegeable machinist make me a half dozen screws. He tracked down the information and made me screws that are perfect.

No reproduction stock iron I know of uses the same pitch as an original. I can contact Ken and see if he can remember all that info..I forget if he bought or borrowed the dies to make my screws. But he knows what they should be.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Just got off the phone with Ken..He says it was an obscure American thread. He is going to the shop to see exactly what so it may be awhile before he gets back to me!

Apparently the German bought many of their machines used during this era from British and American company's.

[mrerick]

The Sturgess book contains prints of the stock, it's stock iron and the screw.

It's copyrighted so I can't post it's contents.

Marc

[lugerholsterrepair]

The Sturgess book contains prints of the stock, it's stock iron and the screw.

Marc, Does the Sturgess book give any measurements, thread pitch or any useful information we are looking for? Or just show the stock iron and the screw?
I have a copy but I am up to my ears in making steel rivets and washers for an Artillery rig..Do you have the page #?

[mrerick]

Hi, It's on Sturgess page 1834 at the end of the lP.08 Drawings. There are are measurements in millimeters, but no profile description of the thread.

Marc

[MikeP]

Evans obsolete screws is a great source.
If he already has a pattern he can make a perfect repro.
I had him make a few obscure pieces by supplying him an original.
Great guy to deal with.

[Olle]

What does this screw look like?

[alanint]

And why would they break? Old metallurgy? Overtightening?

I can't imagine applying enough pressure to a shoulder stock to break the screws without seriously damaging the wood.

[lugerholsterrepair]

I can't imagine applying enough pressure to a shoulder stock to break the screws

Doug, That is certainly true! Although twice now I have found original snail drum loading tools with pivot pins broken off at the thread ends! This pin is about twice as robust as a stock screw..It also has a slotted head and you have to wonder how the break took place? Neither slot has any damage and there is no extreme downward pressure I can figure out. You would think it almost has to be a metal or hardening problem?

[John Sabato]

Evan's Obsolete Screws is now:

http://www.customscrewsandmore.com/

[lugerholsterrepair]

Rick, There is really no need to have these screws made..I know of 3 sources where they can be bought. Patrice offered the gentleman a set..were I him I would take that offer.

Seems like when I was younger, the price for a screw was cheaper than the numbers I have seen in this thread. While I am sure everything was cheaper way back when..this is today. Supply and demand is a factor and Artillery stock iron parts are not found at the local hardware.

One could always rethread the hole for something more common..BLASPHEMY!! To ruin a $500 original stock iron because you are too cheap to buy the screws already offered would be criminal! That would NEVER be a thing a true collector would even consider. Destroying the integrity of an original historical artifact..that idea should never even be brought up! It's one thing to add a repro part but to actually go where you can't return..NO!

[lugerholsterrepair]

"I hope the guy finds, mods, or makes what he needs; the result will be the same."

You couldn't be more wrong so I will agree to disagree. Decisions made that cannot be reversed are poor decisions. Drilling out threads on an original stock iron would be the height of stupidity and the owner would vastly devalue the iron altering it forever. Rick you should really re consider giving that kind of advice. Anyone prescribing to that method would be a very poor steward of historical artifacts entrusted to your care.

I hope the guy does the right thing, buys some correct screws and ignore's bad advice.