Luger Machinepistol (long)

[Hugh]

I found this letter to the editor in a Jan 1992 American Rifleman:


"In Ireland, where I recently bought a small lot of Navy Lugers from Dublin Armoury, I photographed what I believe to be unique--a factory-original, selective-fire Luger pistol/carbine.


It is not for sale as the Irish Defense Dept. is determined to retain it for a museum to be organized around a few of the guns used in the Irish War for Independence that began with the Easter Uprising of 1916.


Whether the gun is a prototype that saw no production or a "special order" is not known. Its basis is an 8" barreled, 9mm 1918 dated DWM Lange Pistole 08 known to collectors as the Artillery Model. It is accompanied by its detachable shoulder stock and 32 round drum magazine.


The modifications are limited to the addition of a dual-button-detachable chasses holding a fore-grip, a full-auto selector and the sights that are built up to clear the selector.


The selector mechanism is a laterally movable L-shaped bar mounted in a square housing on the top of the pistol's breechblock.


Moving the L-bar sidewise causes it to contact the angled trigger bar within the sideplate in which a hole has been cut to allow this controlled interference.


At the moment the toggle bolt group closed in counter-recoil, the L-bar would hit the trigger bar and force it against the horizontal sear bar, thus releasing the firing pin to fire the chambered cartridge.


Firing would continue until the magazine was empty or the trigger was intentionally released.


Moving the L-shaped bar in the opposite direction would produce semi-automatic fire."


W.B. Edwards

Afton, VA






http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/scan2.jpg

very interesting...Iwould like to see a close up on how the mechanism functions...makes you wonder what else is in the united kingdom....up here in canada..my gun dealer friend claims that a luger..military collector here has a similar full auto..select fire luger...if I ever get to see it I will post info here....

[schwob]

It has always been my understanding that the Luger design was not strong enough to sustain full auto firing. The hammering would be too much for the toggle mechanism. Does anyone have any thoughts about this concept, many thanx.

[mauro]

Note that the machinepistole number 9 is currently in the Paul Regnier collection.

You can find information about this prototype in the book "La connaissance du Luger" (see Links & Resources).


Ciao


Mauro

Check "LUGER VARIATIONS" by Harry Jones. Page 22 speaks to the subject. Page 140--see picture of select fire Luger.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Schwob, The Luger was originally concieved from the Maxim machine gun, also toggle action. I believe it is fully capable of full auto fire. I also have an article about a select fire Luger but it's selector lever is built into the sideplate. Jerry Burney

[John Sabato]

toggle action...


I can't place my hands on the photo I have of it, but the components look like the Luger design.


It is in the Bobba book on swiss luger history...


-John

[tom]

I can't add anything about the subgun, but I would like to boast that I own one of the IRA Navy Lugers that were imported by Mr Afton. The paper trail on these guns is absolutely amazing and most were never fired since they were captured before they could be distributed to the rebels. A fascinating story of the Kaiser's Intelligence Service, smuggling guns via submarine and the subsequent execution by firing squad or the rope for the participants.


Tom

Forgive me for being a total pedant, but Dublin, the capital city of the Republic of Ireland, is certainly NOT in the United Kingdom, and has not been since January 7 1922, with the formalisation of the Treaty and the formation of the Irish Free State of Eire. I would also remind you that Eire remained neutral during the so-called emergency [WW2]. The founding declaration of the Republic of Ireland took place in 1949. The United Kingdom consists of England, Northern Irelan [Ulster], Scotland and Wales, but NOT the Republic of Ireland.


Erin go Bragh!


Teordal Ui'foghlaidhe

John - I can't throw any light on the Swiss submachinegun, but Theodor Bergmann Waffenabteilung Suhl made a Hugo Schmeisser-designed SMG called the 9mm Bergmann-Maschinenpistole 18,1 or MP18,1. It used the standard 32 round P.08Lange snail-drum magazine. One can be seen in operation in the film 'Michael Collins' when the boys let rip through the broken window of a cafe at a bunch of G-men. I can provide piccies if required, but I just can't get them onto this site to save my life.....


Terry Foley

Yes Yes Yes!!! I've got it now1 You are referring to the MP41/44 -designed by one Colonel Furrer. It was basically as you say, a toggle lock, but on its side, and was probably the most complex SMG the world has ever seen. The thing had an extra link in the toggle to act as an accelerator, and was only marginally less complex that a jumbo jet. Call me for a picture to put on the site, if you want to that is......


TF

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/parabellum9.jpg

I don't know who made these, I found the photo of this rifle and the machinegun some where on the internet , but don't remember the site.


Micke




http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/luger_rifle_f1.jpg

[John Sabato]

[John Sabato]

No John, not for loving Lugers. For high treason and waging war against your own nation. Didn't you do it with Mr benedict Arnold?


TF

[Roadkill]

That is (I think) the Petersen design for the M-1

that was in .276 caliber. Very good gun, semi auto, 8 rd clip, wasn't adopted because of the caliber, 30.06 was too much for the design.


Roadkill

[Orv Reichert]

we wanted to...but we never caught him!