Early 1900 Commercial

gunnertwo · 10-02-2016, 07:31 PM

Last week a co-workers father brought me a Luger he's had for 40 years. He knew I had interest and some knowledge so he decided to "bring & brag". The pistol is a 1900 Commercial in caliber 7.65, serial # 4585. The BUG proofs are present and it has the early safety lever. The gun is matching, has seen some use and the grips appear to have been revarnished. There is a heart shaped mark on the left side of the serial number that I've never seen before. Any opinions from the list? Attached are several images. Thanks.

G2

gunnertwo · 10-02-2016, 07:34 PM

Additional images.

G2

gunnertwo · 10-02-2016, 07:35 PM

Last images.

G2

Edward Tinker · 10-02-2016, 07:50 PM

nice early 1900 - I'd take it

I seem to remember seeing a marking like that once, but I don't remember it being attributed any special significance.

spacecoast · 10-02-2016, 08:01 PM

Unfortunately it appears that all or significant parts of the gun have been reblued - including the strawed parts, but it's still an early gun. For some reason I'm thinking the safety lever had been transitioned to a Type II at that point in production (that's a Type I lever), but could be wrong or it may not have been a sharp transition. I have #5146 with a Type II lever.

gunnertwo · 10-02-2016, 08:02 PM

The owner took the pistol to one of the traveling antique shows a few years ago (not the TV version). He was told to insure it for 15K...

The gun isn't going anywhere soon. I'll try to give him some honest info on value but when the well is poisoned - you know how that goes.

G2

Dwight Gruber · 10-02-2016, 08:14 PM

Quite a bit of intermixing of type-1/type-2 safties, in broad ranges each, well into the 4800 serial range. Sn 4585 is in the middle of a reported spread of type-1 safeties.

--Dwight

spacecoast · 10-02-2016, 08:23 PM

Quote:

The owner took the pistol to one of the traveling antique shows a few years ago (not the TV version). He was told to insure it for 15K...

I wish that was a valid estimate, but it's likely very optimistic, reblued or not. I bought #5146 in original condition (maybe 90%, but the blue on the grip straps fading to brown and fading straw) for $1,850 about 18 months ago.

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...ghlight=stable

Edward Tinker · 10-02-2016, 09:57 PM

yes, no offense, but 2K is optimistic...

Ron Wood · 10-02-2016, 10:51 PM

I agree with Dwight that the gun falls within the range that a Type I safety could be correct. By looking at the photos of the barrel markings and GERMANY stamp on the front of the frame, under magnification there is some hint of a halo around the markings. The clean edges on the gun and the crispness of the markings would lead me to guess that some uninformed individual in the past gave the gun a liberal application of cold blue. This would perhaps explain the strawed parts being blued and the stamped markings having a vestigial halo.
Other than the possible blue "enhancement" the gun appears proper and original in my opinion.

gunnertwo · 10-03-2016, 01:22 AM

Thanks to all for your comments.

G2

10-02-2016, 07:31 PM	#1
gunnertwo User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Nampa, Idaho Posts: 623 Thanks: 826 Thanked 930 Times in 363 Posts	Early 1900 Commercial Last week a co-workers father brought me a Luger he's had for 40 years. He knew I had interest and some knowledge so he decided to "bring & brag". The pistol is a 1900 Commercial in caliber 7.65, serial # 4585. The BUG proofs are present and it has the early safety lever. The gun is matching, has seen some use and the grips appear to have been revarnished. There is a heart shaped mark on the left side of the serial number that I've never seen before. Any opinions from the list? Attached are several images. Thanks. G2 Attached Thumbnails

10-02-2016, 07:34 PM	#2
gunnertwo User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Nampa, Idaho Posts: 623 Thanks: 826 Thanked 930 Times in 363 Posts	Additional images. G2 Attached Thumbnails

10-02-2016, 07:35 PM	#3
gunnertwo User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Nampa, Idaho Posts: 623 Thanks: 826 Thanked 930 Times in 363 Posts	Last images. G2 Attached Thumbnails

10-02-2016, 10:51 PM	#10
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	I agree with Dwight that the gun falls within the range that a Type I safety could be correct. By looking at the photos of the barrel markings and GERMANY stamp on the front of the frame, under magnification there is some hint of a halo around the markings. The clean edges on the gun and the crispness of the markings would lead me to guess that some uninformed individual in the past gave the gun a liberal application of cold blue. This would perhaps explain the strawed parts being blued and the stamped markings having a vestigial halo. Other than the possible blue "enhancement" the gun appears proper and original in my opinion. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

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10-02-2016, 07:50 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	nice early 1900 - I'd take it I seem to remember seeing a marking like that once, but I don't remember it being attributed any special significance.

10-02-2016, 08:01 PM	#5
spacecoast User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: FL and PA Posts: 332 Thanks: 276 Thanked 243 Times in 109 Posts	Unfortunately it appears that all or significant parts of the gun have been reblued - including the strawed parts, but it's still an early gun. For some reason I'm thinking the safety lever had been transitioned to a Type II at that point in production (that's a Type I lever), but could be wrong or it may not have been a sharp transition. I have #5146 with a Type II lever.

10-02-2016, 08:02 PM	#6
gunnertwo User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Nampa, Idaho Posts: 623 Thanks: 826 Thanked 930 Times in 363 Posts	The owner took the pistol to one of the traveling antique shows a few years ago (not the TV version). He was told to insure it for 15K... The gun isn't going anywhere soon. I'll try to give him some honest info on value but when the well is poisoned - you know how that goes. G2

10-02-2016, 08:14 PM	#7
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Quite a bit of intermixing of type-1/type-2 safties, in broad ranges each, well into the 4800 serial range. Sn 4585 is in the middle of a reported spread of type-1 safeties. --Dwight

10-02-2016, 09:57 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	yes, no offense, but 2K is optimistic...

10-03-2016, 01:22 AM	#11
gunnertwo User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Nampa, Idaho Posts: 623 Thanks: 826 Thanked 930 Times in 363 Posts	Thanks to all for your comments. G2