vintage ammo: not for carbines?

[spripple33]

I ran across this poor old box of Remington .30 Luger ammo at a local gun shop. I think it's from the 20's or 30's but honestly not sure. It's old enough that they're touting smokeless powder and non-corrosive priming like recent innovations...

The box is pretty rough but the one end flap is mostly intact and the message on it gave me pause: "WARNING MUST NOT BE USED IN LUGER CARBINE." The wording almost makes it sound dangerous to use this ammo in a carbine. Everything I have read says that the carbines needed ammunition that was MORE powerful than the run-of-the-mill stuff to function properly.

Maybe this is just a case of Remington misinterpreting the need for "special" ammo for Luger carbines? Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

-Jason

[spangy]

Everything you wanted to know about Remington ammo boxes but were afraid to ask

https://cartridgecollectors.org/docu...-Box-Dates.pdf

Your looking @ 1946-1960 date.

[Doubs]

Except for being a .30 Mauser box, I have one that is identical and in much better condition. My father and I bought a Broomhandle Mauser in the mid-1950's and he bought the cartridges then. There are only a few left in the box that I inherited.

[spripple33]

Thank you gentlemen for the info. I don't officially collect ammo (yet...) but couldn't pass this up. It's a full box and the price was less than they were asking for a box of "cheap" 9mm practice ammo! I'm honestly kind of surprised that the carbine was still relevant enough post-WW2 to warrant a warning...
-Jason

[sheepherder]

Perhaps this ammunition is not powerful enough to cycle the action AND push the bullet fully out of the carbine barrel...

[Doubs]

Originally Posted by spripple33

I'm honestly kind of surprised that the carbine was still relevant enough post-WW2 to warrant a warning...
-Jason

I can only speak for the availability of 9mm cartridges in my area during the 1950's and early 1960's but it wasn't popular or readily found. Very few US manufacturers were making guns chambered for it. Mostly it was relegated to surplus military guns such as the Luger and P.38. So, at the time, the warning that it wasn't suitable for carbines makes sense.

When my father and I purchased our first Luger in the mid-1950's, we ordered surplus cartridges from Ye Old Hunter; non-corrosive WW2 Winchester at $5.00 per hundred. Later he had Shipley's Sporting Goods in Frederick, MD, order a box of commercial 9mm; hardball. I think it was Remington but won't swear to it.

The great popularity of 9mm today is the direct opposite of the situation 50 or 60 years ago.

[cirelaw]

Including WW1

[spripple33]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Perhaps this ammunition is not powerful enough to cycle the action AND push the bullet fully out of the carbine barrel...

I hadn't considered that. I wouldn't think cycling the action of a carbine vs. a pistol would "take up" enough energy to lodge the bullet in the barrel. If this ammo can make it through a standard 4 3/4 inch barrel but not a 12 inch barrel, it must not be very powerful...

[DonVoigt]

My experience with "old" .30 luger, from the 60s timeframe, is that Winchester, Remington, and Peters are all too weak to function a normally sprung luger.
PPU and some batches of Fiocchi will function my shooters, but not all lots of Fiocchi will.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

My experience with "old" .30 luger, from the 60s timeframe, is that Winchester, Remington, and Peters are all too weak to function a normally sprung luger.
PPU and some batches of Fiocchi will function my shooters, but not all lots of Fiocchi will.

I'm wondering what the cut-off date might be. I have several .30 Luger shooters that function with any brand or vintage of ammo with no problem, the US made ammo--Remington and Winchester--included, although I have yet to acquire any old Peters. I might have used up one of the old green Remington Kleanbore boxes of ammo in the mix, and if so, it did fine. Did American makers change the powder/charge spec at some point?

[m1903a3]

Some old ammo boxes. One for the Reichsrevolver, and the other for the C.04, the original Carbine designation of the P.04 Navy.

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

I'm wondering what the cut-off date might be. I have several .30 Luger shooters that function with any brand or vintage of ammo with no problem, the US made ammo--Remington and Winchester--included, although I have yet to acquire any old Peters. I might have used up one of the old green Remington boxes (most likely the "dog bone" style box) of ammo in the mix, and if so, it did fine. Did American makers change the powder/charge spec at some point?

I think it depends entirely on the pistol, most likely the mainspring strength.
Weaker spring is more likely to function.

I have no idea if any mfg. changed their loading or not.

[JTD]

Nice bullets Mike. Love the conical rounds... John