Possible fake Navy Luger

jeb111 · 04-27-2021, 05:58 PM

I saw posted on Legacy Collectibles yesterday a newly advertised 1914 variation Navy luger for sale. well by coincidence I just received the list of Navy lugers compiled by Norm and for just curiosities sake the Luger for sale came up as a fake on the list. I informed Legacy of this and they quickly pulled the pistol until the can verify the authenticity. I thought that was pretty standup of them, they don't know me although I am a past customer. I hope it's not bogus but I would think at the very least it could be a good shooter if they relist it? Just reinforces the fact that even very reputable dealers can make a mistake so in the end it really is up to the buyer to do their homework. I'm sure no expert but I do put in my research, wasn't always the case. When I was a lot younger I did "wing it" a few times and didn't get stung.
Which makes me ask has anyone on the forum bought something, not knowing anything about said item and still came out on top? You hear enough about collectors getting stung how about telling about purchases with happy endings?

Jim

cirelaw · 04-27-2021, 06:33 PM

LEGACY 1914 NAVY https://www.legacy-collectibles.com/...ger-14203.html

Tom Whiteman · 04-27-2021, 08:00 PM

I believe the link posted is not the gun that Jim referenced. I was out much of the day then the one in question came in on consignment. My guys posted it as a refinished Navy - 1917 dated. Jim contacted us (which I greatly appreciate) while I was at home later that evening. I had not even seen the gun yet but I know Norms list and have a copy at my desk. I ended the listing until I could check it in the morning. The serial is 1921. I would not call the Luger a "Fake Navy" and I will contact Norm to clarify. The gun is original finish except for the barrel. Barrel is refinished for sure. But it is a REAL 1917 Navy, however the WK Navy property mark is fake. Its a shame as the gun would be quite sellable and collectible if someone had not added the Property mark on the back strap. I know some will say if anything is fake then the gun is a fake. However, I believe it still has value even if only as a "parts" or shooter grade gun. We will likely accurately describe the gun and then sell it at a reduced price on Gunbroker.

Norme · 04-27-2021, 08:24 PM

Relax Tom no one is questioning you honesty, least of all me. You are one of the very few dealers on my "White List".
I have not had the opportunity of examining 1917 Navy #1921 in person, if that is in fact the gun in question. "Fake, assembled, re-stamped and refinished" is a direct quote from the James D. Julia 2009 Spring Sale catalog.
Best regards, Norm

spangy · 04-28-2021, 12:36 AM

Tom and Legacy are outstanding members of the Luger collecting community.
Tom and his son Scott are honest trustworthy and dedicated to their craft.
I for one have nothing bad to say about them at all and had nothing but great dealings with them.
If by accident or misfortune they sell anything which later turns out to be 'unsatisfactory' they go above and beyond to make things right.

Legacy's YouTube channel is one of my favorite shows ... Watch a few episodes and you will be hooked.
https://www.youtube.com/c/LegacyCollectibles/videos

cirelaw · 04-28-2021, 11:13 AM

I Agree! I have been dealing with their family for years!! Eric

Edward Tinker · 04-28-2021, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norme

.... "Fake, assembled, re-stamped and refinished" is a direct quote from the James D. Julia 2009 Spring Sale catalog.

When the auction houses do say something - ref a stamp or refinished barrel, they seem to throw this entire phrase out there ....

m1903a3 · 04-28-2021, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

LEGACY 1914 NAVY https://www.legacy-collectibles.com/...ger-xxxxx.html

Eric

Please delete your post. It is not the pistol being discussed and shouldn't be dragged into a discussion about the credibility of a different one. I edited the link, so I wouldn't also be associating wrong pistol with the question of authenticity.

Regards,
Mike

PS I have purchased several pistols from Tom and consider him one of the most trustworthy dealers I have done business with.

cirelaw · 04-28-2021, 03:56 PM

What part?

gunnertwo · 04-28-2021, 04:36 PM

I will add to the praise of Legacy and Tom. They helped me fill a long time void in my Parabellum collection. Tom sold me a Krieghoff that was on my want list for years. Very pleased.

G2

cirelaw · 04-28-2021, 05:42 PM

Tom is ready to answer any luger questions and created many videos on Lugers! A Must see! Always A Class Act!! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCes...wNgqa299Bf3Zlw

m1903a3 · 04-28-2021, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

What part?

The entire post that I quoted, it's only one line.

jeb111 · 05-02-2021, 12:57 PM

Yikes! Didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest with my post. Certainly wasn't calling into question the dealers integrity quite the opposite. I have dealt with them in the past and they have exceeded my expectations so when I saw the Navy and checked the list I dropped them a simple e-mail informing them. They responded within minutes literally and said they would look into it right away and would pull the pistol until they got to the bottom of it, I was impressed but not surprised by their attentiveness to the matter. The big reason I became a customer of theirs is the reputation that they have on this forum. So if any hard feelings the post may have caused to Tom and to Norm for sending me the list I apologize that was far from my intent.

04-28-2021, 12:36 AM	#5
spangy Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 617 Thanks: 3,065 Thanked 1,057 Times in 429 Posts	Tom and Legacy are outstanding members of the Luger collecting community. Tom and his son Scott are honest trustworthy and dedicated to their craft. I for one have nothing bad to say about them at all and had nothing but great dealings with them. If by accident or misfortune they sell anything which later turns out to be 'unsatisfactory' they go above and beyond to make things right. Legacy's YouTube channel is one of my favorite shows ... Watch a few episodes and you will be hooked. https://www.youtube.com/c/LegacyCollectibles/videos __________________ Whoever said that "money can't buy you happiness" never bought a Luger. WTB - Take Down Lever & Trigger Plate (#90) for an Imperial Artillery.

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04-27-2021, 05:58 PM	#1
jeb111 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: May 2018 Location: wyoming Posts: 277 Thanks: 712 Thanked 331 Times in 133 Posts	Possible fake Navy Luger I saw posted on Legacy Collectibles yesterday a newly advertised 1914 variation Navy luger for sale. well by coincidence I just received the list of Navy lugers compiled by Norm and for just curiosities sake the Luger for sale came up as a fake on the list. I informed Legacy of this and they quickly pulled the pistol until the can verify the authenticity. I thought that was pretty standup of them, they don't know me although I am a past customer. I hope it's not bogus but I would think at the very least it could be a good shooter if they relist it? Just reinforces the fact that even very reputable dealers can make a mistake so in the end it really is up to the buyer to do their homework. I'm sure no expert but I do put in my research, wasn't always the case. When I was a lot younger I did "wing it" a few times and didn't get stung. Which makes me ask has anyone on the forum bought something, not knowing anything about said item and still came out on top? You hear enough about collectors getting stung how about telling about purchases with happy endings? Jim

04-27-2021, 06:33 PM	#2
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	LEGACY 1914 NAVY https://www.legacy-collectibles.com/...ger-14203.html

04-27-2021, 08:00 PM	#3
Tom Whiteman User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Phila, PA Posts: 71 Thanks: 0 Thanked 28 Times in 3 Posts	I believe the link posted is not the gun that Jim referenced. I was out much of the day then the one in question came in on consignment. My guys posted it as a refinished Navy - 1917 dated. Jim contacted us (which I greatly appreciate) while I was at home later that evening. I had not even seen the gun yet but I know Norms list and have a copy at my desk. I ended the listing until I could check it in the morning. The serial is 1921. I would not call the Luger a "Fake Navy" and I will contact Norm to clarify. The gun is original finish except for the barrel. Barrel is refinished for sure. But it is a REAL 1917 Navy, however the WK Navy property mark is fake. Its a shame as the gun would be quite sellable and collectible if someone had not added the Property mark on the back strap. I know some will say if anything is fake then the gun is a fake. However, I believe it still has value even if only as a "parts" or shooter grade gun. We will likely accurately describe the gun and then sell it at a reduced price on Gunbroker.

04-27-2021, 08:24 PM	#4
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Relax Tom no one is questioning you honesty, least of all me. You are one of the very few dealers on my "White List". I have not had the opportunity of examining 1917 Navy #1921 in person, if that is in fact the gun in question. "Fake, assembled, re-stamped and refinished" is a direct quote from the James D. Julia 2009 Spring Sale catalog. Best regards, Norm

04-28-2021, 11:13 AM	#6
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I Agree! I have been dealing with their family for years!! Eric

04-28-2021, 03:56 PM	#9
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	What part?

04-28-2021, 04:36 PM	#10
gunnertwo User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Nampa, Idaho Posts: 623 Thanks: 826 Thanked 930 Times in 363 Posts	I will add to the praise of Legacy and Tom. They helped me fill a long time void in my Parabellum collection. Tom sold me a Krieghoff that was on my want list for years. Very pleased. G2

04-28-2021, 05:42 PM	#11
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Tom is ready to answer any luger questions and created many videos on Lugers! A Must see! Always A Class Act!! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCes...wNgqa299Bf3Zlw

05-02-2021, 12:57 PM	#13
jeb111 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: May 2018 Location: wyoming Posts: 277 Thanks: 712 Thanked 331 Times in 133 Posts	Yikes! Didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest with my post. Certainly wasn't calling into question the dealers integrity quite the opposite. I have dealt with them in the past and they have exceeded my expectations so when I saw the Navy and checked the list I dropped them a simple e-mail informing them. They responded within minutes literally and said they would look into it right away and would pull the pistol until they got to the bottom of it, I was impressed but not surprised by their attentiveness to the matter. The big reason I became a customer of theirs is the reputation that they have on this forum. So if any hard feelings the post may have caused to Tom and to Norm for sending me the list I apologize that was far from my intent.