WWII Berlin Police Unit marked Follow-Up

suwanneetrader · 12-31-2021, 12:07 AM

I posted this 2021 update in New Collectors where it was 15 years ago believe it should be here Forgive me if I messed up I will try to move pics from old posts Richard Marquette

Well Happy Holidays It has been a long long time since I was on this Forum."because" I have not ran across a Luger since my posts of the Police I've kept. I found Don and others to have been very nice and I hope they have not gone on to that big Collectors Final Gathering, as most of my friends have. I will be 84 in Feb. I'm so glad this Forum is set up so I could find my old posts and add these comments. I still collect older USMC items and research any named US Medal of any branch of service before I sell the non USMC ones. I have about 2,700 posts on the US Militaria Forum and I'm starting to find current values foe items in my collection (have not been to a Gun Show for about 10 years,just sell on the US Forum or Flea Mkt dealers). I was President of the original Florida Gun Collectors in late 70's but have no one alive to ask to help me. The children want none of it but my youngest son says he will keep my Dad's USMC WWII items. I want my youngest "15" Grandson to have my guns and CW items as he is an "A" student but Father not one to save so he will need to sell what I leave him to go to college. Therefore I wonder what is current value on this Berlin Police Luger with holster etc? I'm trying to tag the more valuable items for him so his Dad doesn't give them away and if my daughter knows some prices she won't let him. Thank you from the bottom of my heart and I wish you and yours good health. Richard Marquette .

Here is a PM I sent Don before I knew he listed this Luger's serial number in his book.

Recipients: Don M
05-04-2006, 01:09 PM
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Default SB 5528 DWM 1918/1920
DON: You were correct the Berlin Police Dept, nor the Historical Society even acknowledged my e-mail. I disassembled all but the firing pin and everything I can see has 14 on it even the inside of the grips. As I try to inventory my collectables so when I pass on the kids will have some idea of the values, even if they are a few years out of date. Therefore will you tell me your opinion of the value of the ser. #3114 DWM Luger with Berlin Police numbers on it as well as the holster and the tool? Also when I apply the Connoleys to the holster ( you can see in my forum photos approx 40% of the black is gone from the front of it) should I mix some good black wax polish in with the hide food and then hand rub it on or just hide food only and don't worry about the color of the brown areas? Thanks again Richard Marquette --- the other old retired guy Ha Ha.

Will describe later. Trying to upload photos Well I got one photo to go, email me for holster markings and other photos. This 9mm Luger has 90% original finish and the checkering is so sharp it feels like it is going to cut your palm. It has a wings and head down eagle above 3114 which is above 8.83. All numbers match and 1920 is above 1918. In addition to matching serial number on all parts it also has S.B.W.I.R. 378 5528 on the inside frame with WIR378 being X'ed out. The takedown tool has 5528. The back of the holster has S.B.5528. in the back upper right cornor. Also on the upper back of the holster is FRANZ COBAU above 1933 above what resembles a mum with an L in the center. As you can see alot of the shinny black is off the holster showing the natural leather. Should I do anything to it or leave as is? What do the markings mean? I'm 68 and have had 5 or 6 Lugers from Vets and estates over the years, but due to large family had to sell them. This is the first time I've been in a position to keep one, as it took me 3 years to talk the old guy into selling it to me I'd like to know all about it. Thanking you all in advance.
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Old 04-19-2006, 11:19 PM #2
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Suwannetrader,

Your pistol is a Berlin Police pistol. The markings on the gripstrap indicate that it was issued to the Schutzpolizei of Berlin, West...which is Charlottenberg. I am a retired policeman and I have been in that particular Charlottenberg police station in Berlin (not far from the Ku-damm). Your luger is stamped according to the 1922 Prussian Police regulations and the markings indicate the luger belonged to a reserve unit of the Ist Hundertschaft and the marking was subsequently changed when the reserve was eliminated (according to the Xed out characters). Your matching holster is also marked to the Berlin Polizei. A very nice rig.
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Old 04-19-2006, 11:27 PM #3
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You can upload one picture at a time and save the link or you can post one more posting with a photo, then another, etc.

Nice police pistol, it is what I collect.

Was made in 1918 by DWM, then in 1920 it was property amrked (not a date stamping) by the reichswehr to show it was gov't property. Then at some point it was turned over to the police and if it has a sear safety it was added in 1932.

The 8,83 is the land to land measurement of the bore btw.

NICE rig, being marked on the holster, weapon and tool is very nice, i have a couple like that, but it is not common to find.

Ed
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Old 04-20-2006, 11:51 AM #4
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I really appreciate the info. Was it a policemans during the 1920's, or does the Franz Cobau 1933 on the holster (I can send you other photos ) show the Police Dept got it in 1933? Thanks again Richard [email protected]
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Old 04-20-2006, 12:00 PM #5
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That is hard to say. You are welcome to send as many and as large of photos as you want to [email protected]

My "feeling" is that the holster was mated up in that time frame, and as you said, at the same time frame, the pistol probably came out of storage as it was turned over to the police, was mated up and both marked.

Ed
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Old 04-20-2006, 12:27 PM #6
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Default Other Side of 1918-20 SB5528
Here is the other side of the DWM 1918 shown in other post. Thanks for looking and telling me about it. From this view can you tell if a sear safety was added? Those are not pits but lint in the oil that I wiped it off. Also light places are for the most part from the camera flash.

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Old 04-20-2006, 12:37 PM #7
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Yes, it has a sear safety, you can just see the top of it in the photo.

See the photo where I made the arrows. It is the dog-leg piece of metal from right to left, to the top of the sideplate. It almost appears to have had a mag safety too...

Ed
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Old 04-20-2006, 07:24 PM #8
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Richard,

You have a very interesting rig with a lot of history. If you go to http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...hreadid=11898, you will find instructions for downloading my article on these Berlin Schupo pistols that should help you understand this history.

I would be very interested in seeing a good, focused photo of the marking on the front grip strap.
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I will try to download your info.later as I'm working today trying to kill chinchbugs in my yard, but as I'm so thankful for so many considerate answers I'll upload those markings now. Richard
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suwanneetrader · 12-31-2021, 12:21 AM

I can not figure out how to move from my desktop to here or from the 2006 post in New Collector to here.

suwanneetrader · 12-31-2021, 12:39 AM

http://forum.lugerforum.com/images/a...attach/jpg.gif

suwanneetrader · 12-31-2021, 12:40 AM

It worked I have more Richard

spangy · 12-31-2021, 01:10 AM

Hi Richard ... I for one appreciate your effort and welcome more pictures.
One of the remarkable things I find about the Luger is that even though the Luger didn't change very much design wise over the decades each Luger seems to be individual and portray a unique image of its own.

Thank you for the images.

12-31-2021, 12:07 AM	#1
suwanneetrader User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Florida RETIRED Posts: 31 Thanks: 2 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	WWII Berlin Police Unit marked Follow-Up I posted this 2021 update in New Collectors where it was 15 years ago believe it should be here Forgive me if I messed up I will try to move pics from old posts Richard Marquette Well Happy Holidays It has been a long long time since I was on this Forum."because" I have not ran across a Luger since my posts of the Police I've kept. I found Don and others to have been very nice and I hope they have not gone on to that big Collectors Final Gathering, as most of my friends have. I will be 84 in Feb. I'm so glad this Forum is set up so I could find my old posts and add these comments. I still collect older USMC items and research any named US Medal of any branch of service before I sell the non USMC ones. I have about 2,700 posts on the US Militaria Forum and I'm starting to find current values foe items in my collection (have not been to a Gun Show for about 10 years,just sell on the US Forum or Flea Mkt dealers). I was President of the original Florida Gun Collectors in late 70's but have no one alive to ask to help me. The children want none of it but my youngest son says he will keep my Dad's USMC WWII items. I want my youngest "15" Grandson to have my guns and CW items as he is an "A" student but Father not one to save so he will need to sell what I leave him to go to college. Therefore I wonder what is current value on this Berlin Police Luger with holster etc? I'm trying to tag the more valuable items for him so his Dad doesn't give them away and if my daughter knows some prices she won't let him. Thank you from the bottom of my heart and I wish you and yours good health. Richard Marquette . Here is a PM I sent Don before I knew he listed this Luger's serial number in his book. Recipients: Don M 05-04-2006, 01:09 PM suwanneetrader User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Florida RETIRED Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Default SB 5528 DWM 1918/1920 DON: You were correct the Berlin Police Dept, nor the Historical Society even acknowledged my e-mail. I disassembled all but the firing pin and everything I can see has 14 on it even the inside of the grips. As I try to inventory my collectables so when I pass on the kids will have some idea of the values, even if they are a few years out of date. Therefore will you tell me your opinion of the value of the ser. #3114 DWM Luger with Berlin Police numbers on it as well as the holster and the tool? Also when I apply the Connoleys to the holster ( you can see in my forum photos approx 40% of the black is gone from the front of it) should I mix some good black wax polish in with the hide food and then hand rub it on or just hide food only and don't worry about the color of the brown areas? Thanks again Richard Marquette --- the other old retired guy Ha Ha. Will describe later. Trying to upload photos Well I got one photo to go, email me for holster markings and other photos. This 9mm Luger has 90% original finish and the checkering is so sharp it feels like it is going to cut your palm. It has a wings and head down eagle above 3114 which is above 8.83. All numbers match and 1920 is above 1918. In addition to matching serial number on all parts it also has S.B.W.I.R. 378 5528 on the inside frame with WIR378 being X'ed out. The takedown tool has 5528. The back of the holster has S.B.5528. in the back upper right cornor. Also on the upper back of the holster is FRANZ COBAU above 1933 above what resembles a mum with an L in the center. As you can see alot of the shinny black is off the holster showing the natural leather. Should I do anything to it or leave as is? What do the markings mean? I'm 68 and have had 5 or 6 Lugers from Vets and estates over the years, but due to large family had to sell them. This is the first time I've been in a position to keep one, as it took me 3 years to talk the old guy into selling it to me I'd like to know all about it. Thanking you all in advance. Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version Name: rlm1.jpg Views: 142 Size: 142.0 KB ID: 882 suwanneetrader is online now Report Post Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Old 04-19-2006, 11:19 PM #2 Schupo User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Kansas City Metro Posts: 201 Thanks: 1 Thanked 89 Times in 43 Posts Default Suwannetrader, Your pistol is a Berlin Police pistol. The markings on the gripstrap indicate that it was issued to the Schutzpolizei of Berlin, West...which is Charlottenberg. I am a retired policeman and I have been in that particular Charlottenberg police station in Berlin (not far from the Ku-damm). Your luger is stamped according to the 1922 Prussian Police regulations and the markings indicate the luger belonged to a reserve unit of the Ist Hundertschaft and the marking was subsequently changed when the reserve was eliminated (according to the Xed out characters). Your matching holster is also marked to the Berlin Polizei. A very nice rig. __________________ "You can't please everyone, so you have got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson Schupo is offline Report Post Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Thanks The following member says Thank You to Schupo for your post: Mac Cat Old 04-19-2006, 11:27 PM #3 Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Edward Tinker's Avatar Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,667 Thanks: 1,614 Thanked 4,097 Times in 1,917 Posts Default You can upload one picture at a time and save the link or you can post one more posting with a photo, then another, etc. Nice police pistol, it is what I collect. Was made in 1918 by DWM, then in 1920 it was property amrked (not a date stamping) by the reichswehr to show it was gov't property. Then at some point it was turned over to the police and if it has a sear safety it was added in 1932. The 8,83 is the land to land measurement of the bore btw. NICE rig, being marked on the holster, weapon and tool is very nice, i have a couple like that, but it is not common to find. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV Edward Tinker is offline Report Post Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Thanks Old 04-20-2006, 11:51 AM #4 suwanneetrader User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Florida RETIRED Posts: 18 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Default I really appreciate the info. Was it a policemans during the 1920's, or does the Franz Cobau 1933 on the holster (I can send you other photos ) show the Police Dept got it in 1933? Thanks again Richard [email protected] suwanneetrader is online now Report Post Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Old 04-20-2006, 12:00 PM #5 Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Edward Tinker's Avatar Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,667 Thanks: 1,614 Thanked 4,097 Times in 1,917 Posts Default That is hard to say. You are welcome to send as many and as large of photos as you want to [email protected] My "feeling" is that the holster was mated up in that time frame, and as you said, at the same time frame, the pistol probably came out of storage as it was turned over to the police, was mated up and both marked. Ed Edward Tinker is offline Report Post Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Thanks Old 04-20-2006, 12:27 PM #6 suwanneetrader User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Florida RETIRED Posts: 18 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Default Other Side of 1918-20 SB5528 Here is the other side of the DWM 1918 shown in other post. Thanks for looking and telling me about it. From this view can you tell if a sear safety was added? Those are not pits but lint in the oil that I wiped it off. Also light places are for the most part from the camera flash. ADMIN: Use Add reply and not new topic, that keeps the postings of the same item all together Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version Name: rlm4.jpg Views: 120 Size: 149.8 KB ID: 884 suwanneetrader is online now Report Post Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message The following member says Thank You to suwanneetrader for your post: Mac Cat Old 04-20-2006, 12:37 PM #7 Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Edward Tinker's Avatar Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,667 Thanks: 1,614 Thanked 4,097 Times in 1,917 Posts Default Yes, it has a sear safety, you can just see the top of it in the photo. See the photo where I made the arrows. It is the dog-leg piece of metal from right to left, to the top of the sideplate. It almost appears to have had a mag safety too... Ed Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version Name: sear_1918.jpg Views: 109 Size: 61.8 KB ID: 885 Edward Tinker is offline Report Post Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Thanks The following member says Thank You to Edward Tinker for your post: Mac Cat Old 04-20-2006, 07:24 PM #8 Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Don M's Avatar Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 285 Times in 191 Posts Default Richard, You have a very interesting rig with a lot of history. If you go to http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...hreadid=11898, you will find instructions for downloading my article on these Berlin Schupo pistols that should help you understand this history. I would be very interested in seeing a good, focused photo of the marking on the front grip strap. __________________ Regards, Don [email protected] Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com Don M is offline Report Post Reply With Quote I will try to download your info.later as I'm working today trying to kill chinchbugs in my yard, but as I'm so thankful for so many considerate answers I'll upload those markings now. Richard Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version Name: rlm9.jpg Views: 68 Size: 116.7 KB ID: 886

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12-31-2021, 12:21 AM	#2
suwanneetrader User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Florida RETIRED Posts: 31 Thanks: 2 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	I can not figure out how to move from my desktop to here or from the 2006 post in New Collector to here.

12-31-2021, 12:39 AM	#3
suwanneetrader User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Florida RETIRED Posts: 31 Thanks: 2 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	http://forum.lugerforum.com/images/a...attach/jpg.gif Attached Thumbnails

12-31-2021, 12:40 AM	#4
suwanneetrader User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Florida RETIRED Posts: 31 Thanks: 2 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	It worked I have more Richard

12-31-2021, 01:10 AM	#5
spangy Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 617 Thanks: 3,065 Thanked 1,057 Times in 429 Posts	Hi Richard ... I for one appreciate your effort and welcome more pictures. One of the remarkable things I find about the Luger is that even though the Luger didn't change very much design wise over the decades each Luger seems to be individual and portray a unique image of its own. Thank you for the images. __________________ Whoever said that "money can't buy you happiness" never bought a Luger. WTB - Take Down Lever & Trigger Plate (#90) for an Imperial Artillery.