Swiss A&F Luger...???

Pete Ebbink · 06-09-2005, 08:53 PM

The folks at DWF Firearms have the following Swiss A&F luger available :

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976525903.htm

Couple of questions :

1. Is a stock-lug correct...for a commercial Swiss ?

2. Is the 1-line barrel inscription correct or should they only be a 2-line barrel inscription ?

I am away from my library...

drbuster · 06-09-2005, 10:44 PM

Pete, That stock lug looks like an after market weld-on.

Heinz · 06-09-2005, 10:52 PM

Pete, the one illustrated in Weimar Lugers does not have a stock lug. It says they have one OR two line Abercrombie & Fitch Co. New York (either over or in line with "made in Switzerland" (Both lines are all Capital letters and the ampersand is correct.) Should have i suffix serial numbers and were DWM manufactured in 1921, except for the barrel. Still says all are 4 3/4 but can be found in either 9 mm or 7.35. The serial number in Still is 2989 i . That is about all he has and personally I don't know anything about them.

Ron Wood · 06-10-2005, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Pete, That stock lug looks like an after market weld-on.

Looks like a dovetail and pinned attachment a la the .45 Carbine stock lug to me.

Pete Ebbink · 02-06-2007, 03:06 PM

Ron,

Sorry I missed your old posting...

Here are the items you mention side-by-side :

bofo · 02-06-2007, 04:21 PM

Hi,

Curious, a DWM (= Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabrik) Luger with "Made in Switzerland" written on the barrel... These Lugers are made in Germany for the swiss army.

Tom.

Pete Ebbink · 02-06-2007, 05:01 PM

Hi Thomas,

Here is a posting I made in the past in another discussion about the A&F Lugers :

" If you are reading in the V. Bobba book on Swiss lugers, I think he is talking about the A&F lugers not being made in Switzerland...not in France.

Bobba states that an American retailer ordering commercial lugers and then having barrels made in Switzerland (possibly by SIG) does not realy make the luger a Swiss product...but the "Made in Switzerland" on the barrel may have been A&F attempt to "hype" sales of a luger that may be mistaken by American buyers as Swiss-made.

The A&F lugers are DWM-German made Swiss commerical lugers with the A&F barrel added. Maybe the 1920's was a better time to sell "Swiss-made" guns in the USA rather than German-made guns...as we just finished the Great War with the Germans so American's may not have wanted to buy much German stuff, then...

I do not think it is known, for certain, where the barrels where changed out...in Germany, in Switzerland, or in the USA. My WAG would be in the USA with barrels bought by A&F from Switzerland.

I think this is the "deception" in marketing author Bobba may have been referring to...leading the American buyers to thinking the entire luger was made in Switzerland...when only the barrel was.

BTW...if this is the DFW lugers you are looking at, I think it is wrong. Certainly that "odd" stock lug added is not right.

I do not recall the other A&F lugers having a stock lug.

One also needs to question why the DFW offering does not have the 4-digit serial number on the left side of its receiver flat, as well. If I recall correctly, other A&F lugers do. This gun may have the 4-digits...but the glare of the photo makes it hard to tell or not.

A good photo of the front sight barrel band may be useful as well. DFW photos seem to crop out this important detail. "

06-09-2005, 08:53 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Swiss A&F Luger...??? The folks at DWF Firearms have the following Swiss A&F luger available : http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976525903.htm Couple of questions : 1. Is a stock-lug correct...for a commercial Swiss ? 2. Is the 1-line barrel inscription correct or should they only be a 2-line barrel inscription ? I am away from my library...

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06-09-2005, 10:44 PM	#2
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Pete, That stock lug looks like an after market weld-on.

06-09-2005, 10:52 PM	#3
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	Pete, the one illustrated in Weimar Lugers does not have a stock lug. It says they have one OR two line Abercrombie & Fitch Co. New York (either over or in line with "made in Switzerland" (Both lines are all Capital letters and the ampersand is correct.) Should have i suffix serial numbers and were DWM manufactured in 1921, except for the barrel. Still says all are 4 3/4 but can be found in either 9 mm or 7.35. The serial number in Still is 2989 i . That is about all he has and personally I don't know anything about them.

02-06-2007, 03:06 PM	#5
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Ron, Sorry I missed your old posting... Here are the items you mention side-by-side :

02-06-2007, 04:21 PM	#6
bofo User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Switzerland Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi, Curious, a DWM (= Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabrik) Luger with "Made in Switzerland" written on the barrel... These Lugers are made in Germany for the swiss army. Tom.

02-06-2007, 05:01 PM	#7
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Thomas, Here is a posting I made in the past in another discussion about the A&F Lugers : " If you are reading in the V. Bobba book on Swiss lugers, I think he is talking about the A&F lugers not being made in Switzerland...not in France. Bobba states that an American retailer ordering commercial lugers and then having barrels made in Switzerland (possibly by SIG) does not realy make the luger a Swiss product...but the "Made in Switzerland" on the barrel may have been A&F attempt to "hype" sales of a luger that may be mistaken by American buyers as Swiss-made. The A&F lugers are DWM-German made Swiss commerical lugers with the A&F barrel added. Maybe the 1920's was a better time to sell "Swiss-made" guns in the USA rather than German-made guns...as we just finished the Great War with the Germans so American's may not have wanted to buy much German stuff, then... I do not think it is known, for certain, where the barrels where changed out...in Germany, in Switzerland, or in the USA. My WAG would be in the USA with barrels bought by A&F from Switzerland. I think this is the "deception" in marketing author Bobba may have been referring to...leading the American buyers to thinking the entire luger was made in Switzerland...when only the barrel was. BTW...if this is the DFW lugers you are looking at, I think it is wrong. Certainly that "odd" stock lug added is not right. I do not recall the other A&F lugers having a stock lug. One also needs to question why the DFW offering does not have the 4-digit serial number on the left side of its receiver flat, as well. If I recall correctly, other A&F lugers do. This gun may have the 4-digits...but the glare of the photo makes it hard to tell or not. A good photo of the front sight barrel band may be useful as well. DFW photos seem to crop out this important detail. "