Luger 45 ACP Project

[DonVoigt]

Eugene,
I'd buy "spare" mags at the lower price.

We all understand the need to eat, but don't blame your potential customers for not buying 100 more lugers!

I understand your need for "volume"; but truthfully with your reputation for delay, non-communication, and not meeting shipment commitments- you must understand by folks are not lined up to buy a .45 luger at any price- be it $5k or $7k.

Sorry to be so blunt- I'm very happy with my .45 luger and your work is top notch!

[LugerMan.com]

It was not so much blaming...

But more of stating of the facts ...

I am hoping that , in conversation amongst friends for the most parts ;0) .

I can be frank, without pointing fingers and assigning blame ;0)
Or worrying to be misunderstood.

I simply wish... for more orders ;0)

And hope that putting all my funds and abilities out there to keep Luger history alive... be meat with more enthusiasm then it was...

I simply overestimated, number of luger collectors that were willing or have an ability to spend the money on something they can not find anywhere else ;0) for 5K or 7K for that matter


No hard fillings of any kind...

This forum supported me and the product, and I am grateful for that.

And I hope that need to do the work ( as a preference), over the need to keep up perfect communication is somewhat understood, if not appreciated...

We make ourselves and product better every day .. or at least try ;0)

[JTD]

Eugene, I figured once you got the back log caught up, I would be in the market, when I could drive down, buy it and drive home with it. 7k just killed that idea. The people interested in them are for the most part shooters, not big wallet collectors, and believe you just doomed the project. As stated, 7 thousand buys a lot of original luger. I think all the slow sales are due to lead times of over a year. Now I will wait until the ones out there start showing up in the used gun market, or get the chance to shoot one, and just get it out of my system. As time goes by, the thrill of having one diminishes. I do give you much credit for taking on such a task, and succeeding so well in making a reliable, and previously affordable 45 luger. John

[LugerMan.com]

I do understand that for some people 5 vs 7 make a difference.

But i also know hat for past 6 month, we have been selling them for 6K and lots of people order boxes and 3ed mag making the purchase very close to 7K.

But it is not about money at this point, but about keeping a project alive in a current state.

At 7K I can get some profit, so i can draw a salary after of 2 years of no profit.,
at 6K I am paying for shop costs and not much else.

I waited 2 years to get profit, from it, it's not fun anymore.
It has to make money, or we are going to kill the project.

It is still 1/2 the price of only one other option on the market.

I got my joy out of making the only working 45 Luger on the market ... time to play with other toys

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by LugerMan.com

At 7K I can get some profit, so i can draw a salary after of 2 years of no profit.,
at 6K I am paying for shop costs and not much else.

If you charge $10,000 per standard 1907, then you won't need to sell as many to show a profit!

[rammercmc]

Eugene,

If for the past 6 months you have been selling them for 6,000, how about taking care of the original members here who helped you get started with this project. ! Still waiting on my BABY 45 !! You post here but never give answers when members ask, so when can I expect my LUGER ?

Rick

[DonVoigt]

"It is still 1/2 the price of only one other option on the market."

And what is the other option ?

[Ron Wood]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

"It is still 1/2 the price of only one other option on the market."

And what is the other option ?

Could be Krause or Nedbal-Werle

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

Could be Krause or Nedbal-Werle

I didn't know Krause was still doing conversions, and Werle would be a bear to import.
And neither is a 1907 clone.

Unfortunately, or fortunately- depending on your opinion- no one really "needs" a 1907 luger clone- plenty of other .45 autos, and one off or Martz .45 lugers are available on the secondary market.

Personally, I'm a little surprised Eugene was able to sell 100 1907 clones. That is 1/2 a million $ worth of lugers!

[Ron Wood]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

I didn't know Krause was still doing conversions, and Werle would be a bear to import.
And neither is a 1907 clone.

Krause's is a 1907 clone. Eugene used the blueprints and measurements he purchased from Krause to create his guns. I don't think Krause is still making his guns but they do come up for resale from time to time and usually for a five-figure price.

[rammercmc]

Eugene,

still waiting to hear from you !

You made a baby 45 for yourself so sell it to me and make another for yourself.

Found my posting here when I had ordered one so shooul have been in the second batch to go out.

[LugerMan.com]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

I didn't know Krause was still doing conversions, and Werle would be a bear to import.
And neither is a 1907 clone.

Unfortunately, or fortunately- depending on your opinion- no one really "needs" a 1907 luger clone- plenty of other .45 autos, and one off or Martz .45 lugers are available on the secondary market.

Personally, I'm a little surprised Eugene was able to sell 100 1907 clones. That is 1/2 a million $ worth of lugers!

Need is a strong word,

So i guess I do not need 10 lugers in my collection and 8 Webleys and 4 Cone hummer broomahndles.

I do not need them.

Just as much as I do not need #1 and #2 Luger 1907 45s we made.

No one NEEDS it...

But here we are in a 2nd year of production with 7 guns unspoken for.

I am sure 4 or 5 clients that ordered 2 guns each, desperately need one for each hand ;0)

And a 10mm carbine that is on order is a desperately needed for hunting, because a man needs to put food on the table after all ;0)

[LugerMan.com]

First Baby is staying in house...
I NEED that ...

But we will make a second one, as soon as the mag ordeal is sorted out.

Just case in point, my heat treater decided to skip a stop and did not pickup a test run of mags to heat treat, so now i am day behind from were i wanted to be...

That's what happens when you depend on other people ...

Another case of 2 guns ordered... Baby and Standard.
Both guns have been pre-fitted and one needs to be cut and grips made .

[2bnag]

I doubt that any one mag fired even close to 9000 rounds through it. That would mean there was only one mag used for s/n 4. In the videos I have seen the shooter usually has 3 mags. Even if the mag lasted for "only" 3000 rounds, that is undoubtedly more than nearly any shooter will put through their Luger. I have probably shot fewer than 4000 rounds through my Thompson, and I have around 20 mags, so the round count per mag is actually pretty low.
If the magazines are potentially project killers, it might be time to outsource them to Mecgar, or another manufacturer...Bill

[2bnag]

And, for the record, ignoring someone's emails is just plain rude...Bill

[LugerMan.com]

Originally Posted by 2bnag

And, for the record, ignoring someone's emails is just plain rude...Bill

Not ignoring...

Just 2 days behind on answering...

Imagine trying top accomplish something during the day,
been pulled apart by people walking in and my staff.

And answering 10-15 phone calls a day and about 50-60 emails...

I wish I had an extra office for a secretary...

[G.T.]

Hi Eugene, A long time ago, I was trying to line up fabrication shops to make a magazine shell similar to the fxo type of mag tube! I noticed some mags had a lot of washboard chatter which sometimes occurs when metal is drawn thru a die with out sufficient lube??? It got me to thinking?
At the time, I did contact some aerospace companies that had the capabilities to make what I wanted, and that was a, "cold drawn, formed tube" shape, that was a near net part, less the machining and milling process for fit and function.
Cut off to length, machine top profile, follower slot and bottom radius reliefs if required, etc.?
The cost was reasonable, but the minimum was approx. 25 hundred feet, probably in 6' lengths, 4130 material, maybe 4140?.. Anyway, what stopped me, is I wanted a swaged feed lip area to make them more robust and thicker at the top, and this technology was not found at my level of search.. So, I shelved the project, but never forgot about the tubing... Maybe this will help you plan, maybe not.. but it was the path I traveled for awhile... best to all, til...lat'r....GT...

[DonVoigt]

Eugene,
My point on "need" was that in the $5k range the market is quite small; so your sales volume expectation may be optimistic.

I did not "need" #20 either, but I wanted it and like it a lot!

It is great that some folks ordered two, congrats.

[Edward Tinker]

Delegation - I fully realize it is hard to do.

But, you've needed to hire a journeyman for years - take care of the bluing, the parts requests - phone calls, email and then you supervise and not try to do everything.

'Perfection' has given you a poor reputation Eugene. Do a google search on yourself. Is that the way to get guns sold? You are 8 months behind on 1907 sales - promised and paid by many folks, so saying you are a couple days behind - well, where are the other 7 months?

You've shipped the vast majority of loose mags? if you are saying you have 20 mags sitting around because you want a new batch made - I would bet a phone call to half the people would say, I'll take my completed 1907 and the 3 mags promised.

I fully realize that you hate dealing with on-going problems, but some of these problems you make yourself and then the fun is gone and its a chore. But, delegation, in our line of work, its needed and you simply have to hire someone. In the long run, you'll make a lot more money, and a lot less headaches.

[2bnag]

Eugene, if you get in a bind you could always auction serial number 1. Make yourself another with serial number LX01. By the way, how do you pronounce your last name?