Swiss Mauser # 3721v...

Pete Ebbink · 04-04-2005, 06:30 PM

Some photos of my M1906/34 Swiss Mauser, serial # 3721v...

M1906 style, short frame, grip safety, rust blued receiver, salt blued frame, matching serial numbers, un-numbered aluminum bottomed magazine...absolutely pristine, virgin bore...

Unusual Swiss stamping on the underside of the thumb safety lever; as shown in one of the photos.

Bought this one at a refinish price...but I am not convinced it is a redo...

Opinions and critiques welcomed !

Pete Ebbink · 04-04-2005, 06:31 PM

Pete Ebbink · 04-04-2005, 06:32 PM

the gunman · 04-04-2005, 07:19 PM

Pete if thats a redo it sure one hell of a job.

Pete Ebbink · 04-04-2005, 07:59 PM

This is an odd gun, indeed...

1. It has a short frame/receiver...Swiss seemed to like the long framed M1906's. Actually...the type V short frame...from Professor Ron Wood's tutorial on frame styles...

2. It has the small Mauser Banner logo...which switched to the large Banner logo in the 1935-36 time frame.

3. It has three (3) Eagle/N proofs...which seemed to occur in the 1939 or 1940 time frame...

4. Mauser did not seem to take great care in doing the polished area under the thumb safety lever...looks a bit crude...IMHO.

Lots of ???'s...

Dean762 · 04-05-2005, 02:09 AM

Congrats Pete !! I gotta ditto what gunman said. If it is a redo then its the best I have seen. Please let us know if you find out more.

Dean

Vlim · 04-05-2005, 09:57 AM

Hi Pete,

The Eagle-N proof was part of the 1939 updated German proof law and proofing didn't start officially until april 1st, 1940 in Germany and slightly later in Austria and other occupied areas.

So it was proofed commercially after april, 1940 and before the end of the war.

For completeness sake, as there is often much debate on the eagle-N proof:

Law was published on june, 7th, 1939.
Eagle-N proofing officially started on april, 1st, 1940 in Germany.
Eagle-N proofing officially started on june, 1st, 1940 in Austria and the Sudetenland.

Proofing lasted until the end of the war and the law became effective again in Western-Germany in 1952, with a changed eagle/N format (the 'weimar eagle').

Together with the 1939 proof law revision, heavy penalties were set on marketing unproofed fire-arms.

Pete Ebbink · 04-11-2005, 10:15 PM

I showed this piece around at the recent Reno gun show, allowed anyone who had interest to do a take-down...here are some of the opinions I received :

1. Advanced Swiss luger collector, Bob Lewis of Modesto, CA., compared my pistol to one he had on display that was only 80 numbers or so higher than mine. His was a long frame; mine is a short frame. Finish of both gun side-by-side were almost identical. Bob's had some rough machining marks under the thumb safety, as well (although not as rough as mine). I told Bob that I thought mine was a Bern redo...he said it was too close to his and his was not a re-do. Bob said he actually liked my luger better since the short frame for a M1934 Swiss Mauser is quite rare.

2. Advanced luger collector, expert, and dealer, Mike Krause of San Mateo, CA, thought mine was a very old Bern rework. He did note that there is lots of patina and rust coloration under the finish all over the piece. He spotted the fact that the barrel was probably a Bern replacement with new shallow serial numbers added to the underside of the barrel. Mike aslo noticed the area of the barrel/receiver witness marks was a bit "flat" as would be when the original witness mark on the receiver was filed down and restruck after a new barrel was placed. (Dwight Gruber's sharp eye also noticed this same "flat" spot, when Dwight looked over the piece later in the day.)

3. Our own Rod Wood of El Paso, TX was most curious to detemine if my short frame was merely pulled from Mauser inventory and modified/adapted for its Swiss grip safety. After a detailed take-down and inspection, Ron concluded he thought my short frame was forged/cast with the necessary blocking to accept the grip safety.

4. Ralph Shattuck of WOL had a quick look at my luger. Ralph said it was very nice, rare, but he thought the middle part of the Mauser Banner was a bit too shallow and might indicate a rework.

5. Jan Still had a chance to see/hold the piece. Jan admitted not much experience with Mauser commercials and just commented that it was a "pretty gun".

Overall...I was glad that I was able to let some very advanced luger follks look over my luger. Considering that the only other lugers of this small contract I have seen over the past 2 years had price tags of $ 6500, $ 7500, and recently in Louisville, $ 8000...I am quite happy with the re-finish price I paid for this piece...and it will stay in my collection.

Regards,

Pete...

Ron Wood · 04-12-2005, 01:23 AM

Pete,
My buddy John Eckert showed up at the show and he says that his 06/34 also has a short frame/receiver. Sounds like you are in good company.

Pete Ebbink · 04-12-2005, 05:36 PM

Hi Ron,

Nice to know my short-framed luger has some company. Sorry I missed John at Reno...

What are the details of his frame and the grip safety ?

Did he get a chance to see Bob Lews' Swiss pistol display ?

Regards,

Pete...

Ron Wood · 04-13-2005, 03:13 PM

In talking to John, it sounds like his is made the same way yours is...the frame is the Mauser '34 commercial type that has the grip safety block incorporated as part of the machining process rather than added on. A nice and not frequently encountered variation.

John saw Bob's collection, and has seen it at other times. John also has a very extensive Swiss collection and I believe he probably can match Bob piece for piece.

Pete Ebbink · 04-17-2005, 11:03 PM

Hi Ron,

I can only aspire to build a portion of these two fellows' collections...

Did you and John E. notice the prototype 1924/1929 Swiss luger, # 33106...?

Most Swiss luger books I have take this prototype range in the 33089 to 33093 number range. # 33106 is really up there...don't you think ?

Regards,

Pete...

Pete Ebbink · 02-04-2006, 04:58 PM

I spoke in length with Doug Smith of FGS on the phone this week about this # 3721v. Doug cautioned me that most of the "short frame" 06/34 Swiss Mauser he has seen were not authentic.

He was particularly interested in knowing if mine had an original reinforced frame or not.

I will make plans to bring this # 3721V to the SE NAPCA event in TN this coming up August...where Doug will have an extensive display of v-series lugers...it will give Doug a chance to do a detailed inspection of my luger as well.

As a side note, Doug indicated the odd "F27+" stamping on the underside of my thumb safety is an arsenal replacement.

The spring of my grip safety (as you can see in the photos below) looks to also be a replacement of some sort...

In the mean time, I am posting photos of the frame on my piece...would appreciate other Member's opinions about my frame's reinforcing :

(LF member Doc Fisher has also asked to see photos down into the rear frame well. I will do so in 2 weeks when my camera is back from the repair shop.)

04-04-2005, 06:30 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Swiss Mauser # 3721v... Some photos of my M1906/34 Swiss Mauser, serial # 3721v... M1906 style, short frame, grip safety, rust blued receiver, salt blued frame, matching serial numbers, un-numbered aluminum bottomed magazine...absolutely pristine, virgin bore... Unusual Swiss stamping on the underside of the thumb safety lever; as shown in one of the photos. Bought this one at a refinish price...but I am not convinced it is a redo... Opinions and critiques welcomed !

04-05-2005, 02:09 AM	#6
Dean762 User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 72 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Swiss Mauser! Congrats Pete !! I gotta ditto what gunman said. If it is a redo then its the best I have seen. Please let us know if you find out more. Dean

04-12-2005, 01:23 AM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	Pete, My buddy John Eckert showed up at the show and he says that his 06/34 also has a short frame/receiver. Sounds like you are in good company. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

04-13-2005, 03:13 PM	#11
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	In talking to John, it sounds like his is made the same way yours is...the frame is the Mauser '34 commercial type that has the grip safety block incorporated as part of the machining process rather than added on. A nice and not frequently encountered variation. John saw Bob's collection, and has seen it at other times. John also has a very extensive Swiss collection and I believe he probably can match Bob piece for piece. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

04-04-2005, 06:31 PM	#2
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts

04-04-2005, 06:32 PM	#3
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts

04-04-2005, 07:19 PM	#4
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	Pete if thats a redo it sure one hell of a job.

04-04-2005, 07:59 PM	#5
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	This is an odd gun, indeed... 1. It has a short frame/receiver...Swiss seemed to like the long framed M1906's. Actually...the type V short frame...from Professor Ron Wood's tutorial on frame styles... 2. It has the small Mauser Banner logo...which switched to the large Banner logo in the 1935-36 time frame. 3. It has three (3) Eagle/N proofs...which seemed to occur in the 1939 or 1940 time frame... 4. Mauser did not seem to take great care in doing the polished area under the thumb safety lever...looks a bit crude...IMHO. Lots of ???'s...

04-05-2005, 09:57 AM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi Pete, The Eagle-N proof was part of the 1939 updated German proof law and proofing didn't start officially until april 1st, 1940 in Germany and slightly later in Austria and other occupied areas. So it was proofed commercially after april, 1940 and before the end of the war. For completeness sake, as there is often much debate on the eagle-N proof: Law was published on june, 7th, 1939. Eagle-N proofing officially started on april, 1st, 1940 in Germany. Eagle-N proofing officially started on june, 1st, 1940 in Austria and the Sudetenland. Proofing lasted until the end of the war and the law became effective again in Western-Germany in 1952, with a changed eagle/N format (the 'weimar eagle'). Together with the 1939 proof law revision, heavy penalties were set on marketing unproofed fire-arms.

04-11-2005, 10:15 PM	#8
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	I showed this piece around at the recent Reno gun show, allowed anyone who had interest to do a take-down...here are some of the opinions I received : 1. Advanced Swiss luger collector, Bob Lewis of Modesto, CA., compared my pistol to one he had on display that was only 80 numbers or so higher than mine. His was a long frame; mine is a short frame. Finish of both gun side-by-side were almost identical. Bob's had some rough machining marks under the thumb safety, as well (although not as rough as mine). I told Bob that I thought mine was a Bern redo...he said it was too close to his and his was not a re-do. Bob said he actually liked my luger better since the short frame for a M1934 Swiss Mauser is quite rare. 2. Advanced luger collector, expert, and dealer, Mike Krause of San Mateo, CA, thought mine was a very old Bern rework. He did note that there is lots of patina and rust coloration under the finish all over the piece. He spotted the fact that the barrel was probably a Bern replacement with new shallow serial numbers added to the underside of the barrel. Mike aslo noticed the area of the barrel/receiver witness marks was a bit "flat" as would be when the original witness mark on the receiver was filed down and restruck after a new barrel was placed. (Dwight Gruber's sharp eye also noticed this same "flat" spot, when Dwight looked over the piece later in the day.) 3. Our own Rod Wood of El Paso, TX was most curious to detemine if my short frame was merely pulled from Mauser inventory and modified/adapted for its Swiss grip safety. After a detailed take-down and inspection, Ron concluded he thought my short frame was forged/cast with the necessary blocking to accept the grip safety. 4. Ralph Shattuck of WOL had a quick look at my luger. Ralph said it was very nice, rare, but he thought the middle part of the Mauser Banner was a bit too shallow and might indicate a rework. 5. Jan Still had a chance to see/hold the piece. Jan admitted not much experience with Mauser commercials and just commented that it was a "pretty gun". Overall...I was glad that I was able to let some very advanced luger follks look over my luger. Considering that the only other lugers of this small contract I have seen over the past 2 years had price tags of $ 6500, $ 7500, and recently in Louisville, $ 8000...I am quite happy with the re-finish price I paid for this piece...and it will stay in my collection. Regards, Pete...

04-12-2005, 05:36 PM	#10
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Ron, Nice to know my short-framed luger has some company. Sorry I missed John at Reno... What are the details of his frame and the grip safety ? Did he get a chance to see Bob Lews' Swiss pistol display ? Regards, Pete...

04-17-2005, 11:03 PM	#12
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Ron, I can only aspire to build a portion of these two fellows' collections... Did you and John E. notice the prototype 1924/1929 Swiss luger, # 33106...? Most Swiss luger books I have take this prototype range in the 33089 to 33093 number range. # 33106 is really up there...don't you think ? Regards, Pete...

02-04-2006, 04:58 PM	#13
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	I spoke in length with Doug Smith of FGS on the phone this week about this # 3721v. Doug cautioned me that most of the "short frame" 06/34 Swiss Mauser he has seen were not authentic. He was particularly interested in knowing if mine had an original reinforced frame or not. I will make plans to bring this # 3721V to the SE NAPCA event in TN this coming up August...where Doug will have an extensive display of v-series lugers...it will give Doug a chance to do a detailed inspection of my luger as well. As a side note, Doug indicated the odd "F27+" stamping on the underside of my thumb safety is an arsenal replacement. The spring of my grip safety (as you can see in the photos below) looks to also be a replacement of some sort... In the mean time, I am posting photos of the frame on my piece...would appreciate other Member's opinions about my frame's reinforcing : (LF member Doc Fisher has also asked to see photos down into the rear frame well. I will do so in 2 weeks when my camera is back from the repair shop.)