Something to clarify about Mauser Parabellum.

[mauro]

Hello guys,
I would like to point out your attention about a few points to be clarified about Mauser Parabellum .

The first point is related to the transition serial number from the 29/70 model to the 06/73 in .30 Luger caliber. Our friend Gerben has a 1972-and-a-half variation ( a sort of transitional model ) with serial number 10.004187. A 29/70 model with serial number 10.004063 is currently for sale on the Forum. Therefore the transition is placed somewhere between 4063 and 4187. Now the questions:
Do you have some 29/70 or 06/73 (.30 Luger) with serial number that falls in this range?
Do you have a 29/70 model (.30 Luger) with serial number greater than 10.004187? In this case the 29/70 model was still produced together with the 06/73 model for a while.

The second point is related to the amount of Mauser Parabellum produced in .30 Luger. I have seen a late production numbered 10.005647 and dated 1986. I guess this pistol belonging to the real last production. Do you have pistols with serial number grater than this one? I guess that the production of commercial .30 calibers was around 5000 pistols. Do you have information about this point?

The last point is related to the early production. In another topic (http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...threadid=11862), we have already analyzed the first production. We highlighted that the first 50 pistols (prototypes) in caliber .30 Luger have a particular configuration, different from the normal production. I have bought one of this, the number 19 (10.00.10019). Do you have notice about the other 49?


Any information about the above points is really appreciated.

Ciao
Mauro

[mauro]

Hello fellows,
I am continuing my research about .30Luger Mauser Parabellum numbering. We already highlight that the first 50 pistols have a special configuration (prototypes 1970-71).
The transition between the 29/70 model and the 06/73 model falls in the range 10.004063 and 10.004187 (1972).
Now the news: a Spanish friend of mine has a 06/73 with serial number 10.005461 and dated HH (1977) .
Actually I have two interesting pistol made especially for Italian market, a LP08 commemorative and a P08 both in .30Luger. The P08 serial number is 10.005558 dated IF (1985) . The LP08 commemorative in .30 Luger has the serial number 10.005647 and it is dated IG (1986) .
Therefore only 186 Mauser Parabellum in .30Luger have been produced from 1977 to 1986!! Among them at least 89 were made in the period 1985-86, mainly for the Italian market (around 150 pistols between P08 and LP08 in .30Luger)
It means that the production of the 06/73 model ended around the period 1977/78 and the production of the .30Luger started again in the middle of year 80 for special production.
I guess it is interesting.
Let me know your opinion.
Ciao
Mauro


06/73 made in 1977:









My couple P08 and LP08 both in .30Luger made in 1985-86:



Undated prototype number 10.00.1019 (around 1970-71)

[Vlim]

Hi Mauro,

It confirms my suspicion that many Mauser Parabellums had a very, very, very long shelf life.

[LU1900]

Mauro , I have a 30 luger stamped 72 and number on recever up the ejec. and on the frame up the trigger n#10.003260.
The bottom frame like 29 suiss
No interarm...., Original Mauser

[mauro]

Thank you Patrice,
I owned too a 1972 Mauser Parabellum number 10.003967.
I would like to build a sort of database related to the numbering of the .30Luger Parabellum.
Therefore any helps concerning this matter is really appreciated.
Thank you.
Mauro

[Lugerdoc]

Mauro, It sounds as though you believe that the 10. (7.65mm) prefixed Parabellums and the 11. prefix (9mms) had independent serial ranges. I don't believe this to be the case, but I'd have to do a lot more research to be sure. Tom

[Vlim]

Hi Tom,

Interesting remark. Finding two Mausers, one in 7.65 and one in 9 mm with the same suffix behind the 10 and 11 would prove that there were two different ranges. Failure to find identical numbers on 7.65 and 9mm pistols would point towards a combined serial range, with the 10 or 11 added to signify 7.65 or 9 mm.

[Aaron]

Mauro, my .30 Luger with 6" barrel is numbered 10. 005305

[mauro]

Hello fellows,
I guess that the Tomâ??s remark is interesting but I am confident that Mauser Parabellums have different serial numbers for different calibers.
Actually I would like to add the following points to the discussion:
1. All the authors (Walter, Allan page 27) highlight that the serial number of these model start from 10.001001 for the .30Luger caliber and from the 11.001001 for the 9mm Parabellum. The pilot group have the following serial number 10.0001 and 10.0002 for .30Luger, 11.0001 and 11.0002 for 9mm.
2. The second point is related to the date of production. In fact Mauser produced more 9mm models than .30luger; for this reason the 9mm models reached a big serial number before the .30luger.
Look at this example, my LP08 commemorative in .30Luger made in 1986 is numbered 10.005647; a 29/70 9mm of a friend of mine made in 1972 is numbered 11.006.347.

According to my research, the .30luger production ends around the number 5800 around 1986.
In addition:
The serial number of the .30Luger in 1972 was around 3900 (two examples 3260 and 3967 dated 1972). In 1972, the serial number of the 9mm was around 6400. In the 1974 the serial number of the 9mm models was around #11900.

Therefore is not possible to correlate serial number with year of production for both calibers. In my understanding the only way to justify this is that the two calibers have two different series of number, in accordance with books and articles.

Let me know your opinion.

Aaron please let us know the year of production.

Ciao
Mauro

[mauro]

Hello guys,
I am happy because I have found a confirmation about my hypothesis that the most important production of Mauser Parabellum ceases in the middle of â??70 years.
If you look at the previous considerations, I have wrote that, in accordance to the serial number analysis, the Mauser produced only about 186 pistol in .30Luger from 1977 to 1986. So absolutely scarce (and therefore rare) production!
This hypothesis based on the serial number analysis found a verification in â??the Mauser Parabellumâ?� book wrote by Mr. Allan.

Mr. Allan states that, due to the unfavorable exchange rate between Germany and USA, Interarms and Mauser decided to cancel the contract in the January 1976 .

This justifies the result of my previous assumption based on the serial number analysis.

I think this is interestingâ?¦
Let me know your opinion.

Cheers.
Mauro

[Hugh]

Mauro,

I have 30L number 10.002185, also have the blue & white boxes & targets ONLY for 30L # 4073, and 9mm #72729 and the target only for 9mm #8663. Does anyone have the gun to match these boxes?

[Aaron]

Mauro, I will be happy to give you the date of production of my .30 Luger, but I must stupidly admit that I cannot find the date. It is not on the box, the target, or the pistol. Is it in the instruction booklet? I forgot to look there.

[mauro]

HI Aaron,
Thank for the interest in this topic.
Usually the Mauser Parabellum imported by Interarms are not dated. Your pistol should have the internal Mauser FBM mark. Actually it is possible to find Interarms pistol with the German marks (Ulm mark and related date).
In the Interarms pistol, sometimes the date is written on the test target.

Hugh thank you too for the information.
Is your pistol dated?

All information about serial number and date of production is really appreciated.
Thank you guys.
Ciao
Mauro

[Hugh]

Mauro,

My pistol is Interarms marked and is not dated.

[mauro]

Hello Hugh,
According to my data base your pistol should be made in the 1971 or in the early 1972.

I need to collect more serial number and date to be more precise.

Any help on this matter is really appreciated.
Ciao
Mauro

[Lugerdoc]

Mauro, The only two 7.65mm Parabellums that I have left in stock are both 6" barrelled: #10.00.1067 Interarms & FBM proofed, but matching target dated 18 Dez.1970. #10.002195 Interarms FBM no original traget. Tom

[mauro]

Hi Tom,
Thank you so much for the useful information; I am going to increase my serial number data base.
In particular the Parabellum number 67 is really interesting.
Do you mind post some photos of this pistol?
In fact, I would like to check if this pistol shows similar features as the fist 50 prototypes.
Many thanks.
Ciao
Mauro

[mauro]

Tom,
note that there is a difference of 10 pistols between yours 29/70 and the Hugh's one.
According to my data base, your pistol should be made in 1971 or in the early 1972.
Thanks.
Ciao.
Mauro

[mauro]

Hello fellows,
In the previous points, we discussed about the Mauser early production and about the serial numbering of the Mauser Parabellum. I am continuing collecting information and documentation about this early production.

I have recently bought a complete set of articles dated 1969 that describes the production of the first models (presentation models, prototypes and early production) as well as the toolings made by Mauser and bought from Berna.

This 1969 photo shows the first two prototypes made by Mauser in 1969 to show to the NSGA and NRA.
The two prototypes are numbered 10.0001 (.30 caliber) and 11.0001 (9 mm.).
The total number of prototypes made by Mauser and numbered 10.000x and 11.000 should be around five.


I will scan the most interesting photos of these old and interesting articles and I will prepare a page on my web site. I will let you know when the page will be available.

Any idea about where these pistols are now?

For the moment look at this nice black & white photo.
Ciao
Mauro

[Steve Richards]

Mauro,

Is the series that you are refereing to the one that was published in GUNFACTS magazine? I have also been working to get the complete series and just bought copies of the one part that I was missing. It is a very good series and hopefully when John Sabato is back he will be able to post it in the reference section so that the information will be available to everyone.

Steve