August Weiss' .32 ACP Baby

Navy · 06-07-2005, 05:45 PM

All,

Am pleased to announce that I have closed the deal for what purports to be August Weiss' personal baby luger in .32 ACP. The piece comes with a fair amount of provenance and expert opinion from such luminaries as Fred Datig.

I will have the gun in hand within the next few days, then some pix to follow.

Tom A

Pete Ebbink · 06-07-2005, 05:53 PM

WOW !!! Great score...

Is this the type of Baby with the Borchardt-type thumb safety (unlike the 7 shot Geo. Luger luger that Shattuck owns...) ?

I have heard there are four of these Borchardt-type Baby lugers...two in 9 mm Kurtz and two in .32 cal...

Hope you bring this Baby to the SE NAPCA event in Chattanooga, TN in August !!!

Edward Tinker · 06-07-2005, 05:54 PM

Tom,

Is this the one in Datig's book? If so, cool story, and what a find!

Ed

pipeman45 · 06-07-2005, 08:58 PM

Congrats on a great find.

Navy · 06-07-2005, 09:54 PM

All,

It has the Borchardt safety and I believe it to be the same gun portrayed in Datig. Datig is a signatory on the authenticating paperwork.

A *very* cool gun!
It will be in Chattanooga along with some other "1 of 1 "guns.

Tom A.

John Sabato · 06-08-2005, 10:10 AM

Congrats Tom... glad you were able to close that deal... Looking forward to the photos...

mauro · 06-10-2005, 05:32 PM

Tom,
my best congratulation!!!
We wait photos of this beauty and more information about the related papers.
Ciao
Mauro

Navy · 06-13-2005, 07:46 PM

Regrettably the seller has backed out of the deal; a *substantial* amount of $$ was involved, but he said that, after much soul searching, the piece meant more than money to him.

And so it goes.

Tom A.

Rod WMG · 06-13-2005, 09:36 PM

My condolences, Tom.

drbuster · 06-14-2005, 12:45 AM

Lugers are hard to part with...it gets into your blood...especially rare or one of a kind ones. Heck, I even clean (and covet) my shooter at least once a week, whether I shoot it or not. And so it goes.

pipeman45 · 06-14-2005, 01:39 AM

Better to have loved and lost- well you know how it goes. Sorry you didn't get this treasure,but the hunt continues!

Jamka · 06-15-2005, 05:57 PM

Tom,

I wanted to wait to congratulate you till after you published the pix. Sorry to read that the deal went off.
Some years ago I had the same experience with a pristine P04 1904 variation. The seller would bring me the pistol after a week, the price was fixed. But I was so glad, that I told every collector I knew what I had bought before the delivery took place...
The seller did not come, just called that he had decided to keep it. Apparently he heard about my halleluja messages...

Anyway, this might be different in your case, at least I hope so!

Navy · 06-15-2005, 09:32 PM

The hunt is what it is all about!

Tom A.

the gunman · 06-16-2005, 05:29 PM

At least you had the excitement of coming that close.

Navy · 06-17-2005, 08:23 PM

It may still happen; am still chatting with the seller.

Tom A.

thegundude · 06-17-2005, 11:39 PM

Good luck Tom.

Paul L · 06-18-2005, 12:18 AM

Tom,

for those of us "NEWBIES"...... me anyway, just what is this pistol and it's significance ???????

And good luck on the negotiations, I hope it happens for you !!!!!

TIA, Regards, Paul

Ron Wood · 06-18-2005, 02:45 AM

The Ã¢??BabyÃ¢?Â Luger is one of the rarest variations. It is a scaled down Ã¢??pocketÃ¢?Â version of the Luger. According to Herr August Weiss, there were two constructed, serial numbers 1 and 2, in 7.65mm (.32 ACP) and two, serial numbers 3 and 4, in 9mm Kurz (.380). Again according to Herr Weiss, there may have been enough parts to construct a fifth pistol, but there is no evidence that this was ever done. Herr Weiss probably never actually Ã¢??ownedÃ¢?Â one of these examples, but they were built under his supervision as DWM Works Manager in 1925-1926. The pistol was designed by Herr Heinrich Hoffman, Chief Engineer of the Pistol Production Department of DWM, and was intended to introduce a pocket pistol that would hopefully compete with some of the other popular pocket autos of the time.

The connection of the best-documented example with Herr Weiss came about with the discovery of serial number 4 by a French gun collector in 1961 in a French estate. The French collector contacted the well known American collector, Carl Wilson. After some negotiation, Mr. Wilson set about to have it authenticated. Herr Weiss was still very much alive, so pictures and correspondence were exchanged. In 1962 the gun was hand carried to Germany for Herr Weiss to examine first-hand. Herr Weiss confirmed that it was genuine and provided a notarized letter of authentication. Mr. Wilson then proceeded with the acquisition and it remained in his collection until 1981. Another prominent American collector, Pat Redmond (now deceased), was the lucky individual that purchased it from Mr. Wilson. I do not know its history after that point.

Paul L · 06-18-2005, 09:37 AM

Ron,

thanks for the history, now i understand what a unique piece of history Tom is trying to acquire.......

Regards, Paul

tudorbug · 06-18-2005, 10:55 AM

Thank you for this summary, Ron. I also now better understand Tom's disappointment when his arrangement did not proceed to a sale.

Hang in there, Tom! There will be another day.

David

06-07-2005, 05:45 PM	#1
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	August Weiss' .32 ACP Baby All, Am pleased to announce that I have closed the deal for what purports to be August Weiss' personal baby luger in .32 ACP. The piece comes with a fair amount of provenance and expert opinion from such luminaries as Fred Datig. I will have the gun in hand within the next few days, then some pix to follow. Tom A

06-07-2005, 08:58 PM	#4
pipeman45 User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kentucky Posts: 539 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Congrats on a great find. __________________ Dave

06-08-2005, 10:10 AM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Congrats Tom... glad you were able to close that deal... Looking forward to the photos... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-10-2005, 05:32 PM	#7
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Tom, my best congratulation!!! We wait photos of this beauty and more information about the related papers. Ciao Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

06-15-2005, 05:57 PM	#12
Jamka RIP Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Antwerp Belgium Posts: 51 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Tom, I wanted to wait to congratulate you till after you published the pix. Sorry to read that the deal went off. Some years ago I had the same experience with a pristine P04 1904 variation. The seller would bring me the pistol after a week, the price was fixed. But I was so glad, that I told every collector I knew what I had bought before the delivery took place... The seller did not come, just called that he had decided to keep it. Apparently he heard about my halleluja messages... Anyway, this might be different in your case, at least I hope so! __________________ Joop

06-07-2005, 05:53 PM	#2
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	WOW !!! Great score... Is this the type of Baby with the Borchardt-type thumb safety (unlike the 7 shot Geo. Luger luger that Shattuck owns...) ? I have heard there are four of these Borchardt-type Baby lugers...two in 9 mm Kurtz and two in .32 cal... Hope you bring this Baby to the SE NAPCA event in Chattanooga, TN in August !!!

06-07-2005, 05:54 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Tom, Is this the one in Datig's book? If so, cool story, and what a find! Ed

06-07-2005, 09:54 PM	#5
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	All, It has the Borchardt safety and I believe it to be the same gun portrayed in Datig. Datig is a signatory on the authenticating paperwork. A very cool gun! It will be in Chattanooga along with some other "1 of 1 "guns. Tom A.

06-13-2005, 07:46 PM	#8
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Regrettably the seller has backed out of the deal; a substantial amount of $$ was involved, but he said that, after much soul searching, the piece meant more than money to him. And so it goes. Tom A.

06-13-2005, 09:36 PM	#9
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My condolences, Tom.

06-14-2005, 12:45 AM	#10
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Lugers are hard to part with...it gets into your blood...especially rare or one of a kind ones. Heck, I even clean (and covet) my shooter at least once a week, whether I shoot it or not. And so it goes.

06-14-2005, 01:39 AM	#11
pipeman45 User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kentucky Posts: 539 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Better to have loved and lost- well you know how it goes. Sorry you didn't get this treasure,but the hunt continues!

06-15-2005, 09:32 PM	#13
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	The hunt is what it is all about! Tom A.

06-16-2005, 05:29 PM	#14
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	At least you had the excitement of coming that close.

06-17-2005, 08:23 PM	#15
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	It may still happen; am still chatting with the seller. Tom A.

06-17-2005, 11:39 PM	#16
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	Good luck Tom. __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

06-18-2005, 12:18 AM	#17
Paul L User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Monroe County, SE Mich. Posts: 76 Thanks: 5 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Tom, for those of us "NEWBIES"...... me anyway, just what is this pistol and it's significance ??????? And good luck on the negotiations, I hope it happens for you !!!!! TIA, Regards, Paul

06-18-2005, 02:45 AM	#18
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	The Ã¢??BabyÃ¢?Â Luger is one of the rarest variations. It is a scaled down Ã¢??pocketÃ¢?Â version of the Luger. According to Herr August Weiss, there were two constructed, serial numbers 1 and 2, in 7.65mm (.32 ACP) and two, serial numbers 3 and 4, in 9mm Kurz (.380). Again according to Herr Weiss, there may have been enough parts to construct a fifth pistol, but there is no evidence that this was ever done. Herr Weiss probably never actually Ã¢??ownedÃ¢?Â one of these examples, but they were built under his supervision as DWM Works Manager in 1925-1926. The pistol was designed by Herr Heinrich Hoffman, Chief Engineer of the Pistol Production Department of DWM, and was intended to introduce a pocket pistol that would hopefully compete with some of the other popular pocket autos of the time. The connection of the best-documented example with Herr Weiss came about with the discovery of serial number 4 by a French gun collector in 1961 in a French estate. The French collector contacted the well known American collector, Carl Wilson. After some negotiation, Mr. Wilson set about to have it authenticated. Herr Weiss was still very much alive, so pictures and correspondence were exchanged. In 1962 the gun was hand carried to Germany for Herr Weiss to examine first-hand. Herr Weiss confirmed that it was genuine and provided a notarized letter of authentication. Mr. Wilson then proceeded with the acquisition and it remained in his collection until 1981. Another prominent American collector, Pat Redmond (now deceased), was the lucky individual that purchased it from Mr. Wilson. I do not know its history after that point. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-18-2005, 09:37 AM	#19
Paul L User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Monroe County, SE Mich. Posts: 76 Thanks: 5 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Ron, thanks for the history, now i understand what a unique piece of history Tom is trying to acquire....... Regards, Paul

06-18-2005, 10:55 AM	#20
tudorbug Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 387 Thanks: 0 Thanked 40 Times in 29 Posts	Thank you for this summary, Ron. I also now better understand Tom's disappointment when his arrangement did not proceed to a sale. Hang in there, Tom! There will be another day. David