Lugers on Aircrew

Navy · 09-30-2005, 12:50 PM

One of my passions is collecting old Imperial, Weimar and III Reich scrapbooks that were assembled by soldiers, sailors and airmen of the period. I find them to be a very effective way to put a human face on Lugers.

Last evening, I recieved from Holland a very good Luftwaffe scrapbook that depicted the life and service of a yound German from his early days in RAD through his time in the N.S.F.K and ultimately the Luftwaffe.

Within the latter Luftwaffe series of photos, there are 4 that depict him putting on his parachute harness and other flying gear. He is clearly wearing a P-08 holster in the photos. As he was standing next to an Avarado, I think this clearly busts the conventional wisdom that only transport aircrews carried Lugers on missions.

The scrapbook also contained the original set of orders and award document for his pilot's wings.

If I had a scanner, I would post these pix, but I don't.

Tom A.

John D. · 09-30-2005, 07:53 PM

Hi Tom,

An interesting set of photos - and I'd love to see them.. Also - I do not know who said flight crews didn't wear Lugers, but a few did - as you have discovered. As well - carrying Lugers wasn't just confined to "transports" or their aircrews - so I dunno where you read that either as being fact or "wisdom"? If you did - it is wrong.

In fact, and for example - you may want to do a search in this Forum for a post I made where some WW2 German fighter aircraft were delivered with HKs - and I also included the flight plan, dates and training schedules..

Best to you...!!!!!

John D.

Dwight Gruber · 09-30-2005, 08:03 PM

Also, I think I remember a report in these Forums somewhere of a P-08 being taken from a captured downed German bomber pilot--I think that was an Arado, too...

--Dwight

Edward Tinker · 10-01-2005, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tom A
.... As he was standing next to an Avarado, I think this clearly busts the conventional wisdom that only transport aircrews carried Lugers on missions.
Tom A.

This is the conventional "wisdom" I have heard for years, that most pilots didn't carry the luger because it was too big! I bet it was a personal choice and what they had in the armorery!

Ed

Lugerdoc · 10-01-2005, 08:51 AM

German Pilots, like all other German Officer, could PURCHASE whatever pistol they desired. The enlisted flight crew members who I have asked about this, all said that they were issued foreign made (FN, CZ, FEG, etc) pistols on an individual trip basis. TH

jamese · 10-01-2005, 09:41 AM

Tom,
I have a scanner and would be happy to scan whatever you needed

I'm sure I'm not the only one that would like to see those photos posted

Jim

Walt NW · 10-01-2005, 03:48 PM

With an uncle and a couple cousins in the Luftwaffe, I've had great interest in the German air arm for many years and have compiled a pretty fair library with many pictorial volumes. A quick glance shows the majority of fighter and other single engine pilots with what are apparently PPK's, but several with larger weapons, lugers, P-38's or whaterver. Multi-engine aircrew all appear to favor the larger gun.

Lugerdoc · 10-02-2005, 09:03 AM

Walt, Don't jump to the conclusion that all enlisted in LW uniform were Flight Crew personnel. All the AAW (Flak) batteries were manned by LW personel, and being on the ground, they had a greater chance of being overrun, therefore probably were issued 9mm pistols. TH

Navy · 10-02-2005, 10:42 AM

The LW actually had ground infantry forces organic to the organization.

Tom A.

Walt NW · 10-02-2005, 12:40 PM

Tom and Doc,
100% correct. My uncle was attatched to a Luftwaffe 88 MM flak battery throughout the war (or at least until the Russians relieved him of that responsibility). While in France and Germany, he had been issued a Luger, but that was changed to a P-38 when he was transferred to the Russian front.

Edward Tinker · 10-08-2005, 11:07 PM

Here are the scans that I made for Tom.

Tom, I have them larger, plus these individual ones. Any others you wanted me to scan in and put on a CD, I can.

Ed

There are some other pictures of this pilot, and just glimpses of the holster.

I would actually say that the other guy has a holster too, just can't tell what kind.

09-30-2005, 12:50 PM	#1
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Lugers on Aircrew One of my passions is collecting old Imperial, Weimar and III Reich scrapbooks that were assembled by soldiers, sailors and airmen of the period. I find them to be a very effective way to put a human face on Lugers. Last evening, I recieved from Holland a very good Luftwaffe scrapbook that depicted the life and service of a yound German from his early days in RAD through his time in the N.S.F.K and ultimately the Luftwaffe. Within the latter Luftwaffe series of photos, there are 4 that depict him putting on his parachute harness and other flying gear. He is clearly wearing a P-08 holster in the photos. As he was standing next to an Avarado, I think this clearly busts the conventional wisdom that only transport aircrews carried Lugers on missions. The scrapbook also contained the original set of orders and award document for his pilot's wings. If I had a scanner, I would post these pix, but I don't. Tom A.

10-01-2005, 08:51 AM	#5
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	German Pilots, like all other German Officer, could PURCHASE whatever pistol they desired. The enlisted flight crew members who I have asked about this, all said that they were issued foreign made (FN, CZ, FEG, etc) pistols on an individual trip basis. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected]

10-01-2005, 09:41 AM	#6
jamese User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 789 Thanks: 0 Thanked 84 Times in 34 Posts	Tom, I have a scanner and would be happy to scan whatever you needed I'm sure I'm not the only one that would like to see those photos posted Jim __________________ The "truth" is a matter of Perception

10-02-2005, 09:03 AM	#8
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Walt, Don't jump to the conclusion that all enlisted in LW uniform were Flight Crew personnel. All the AAW (Flak) batteries were manned by LW personel, and being on the ground, they had a greater chance of being overrun, therefore probably were issued 9mm pistols. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected]

09-30-2005, 07:53 PM	#2
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 477 Thanked 515 Times in 128 Posts	Hi Tom, An interesting set of photos - and I'd love to see them.. Also - I do not know who said flight crews didn't wear Lugers, but a few did - as you have discovered. As well - carrying Lugers wasn't just confined to "transports" or their aircrews - so I dunno where you read that either as being fact or "wisdom"? If you did - it is wrong. In fact, and for example - you may want to do a search in this Forum for a post I made where some WW2 German fighter aircraft were delivered with HKs - and I also included the flight plan, dates and training schedules.. Best to you...!!!!! John D.

09-30-2005, 08:03 PM	#3
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Also, I think I remember a report in these Forums somewhere of a P-08 being taken from a captured downed German bomber pilot--I think that was an Arado, too... --Dwight

10-01-2005, 03:48 PM	#7
Walt NW User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Caney, Texas Posts: 90 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	With an uncle and a couple cousins in the Luftwaffe, I've had great interest in the German air arm for many years and have compiled a pretty fair library with many pictorial volumes. A quick glance shows the majority of fighter and other single engine pilots with what are apparently PPK's, but several with larger weapons, lugers, P-38's or whaterver. Multi-engine aircrew all appear to favor the larger gun.

10-02-2005, 10:42 AM	#9
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	The LW actually had ground infantry forces organic to the organization. Tom A.

10-02-2005, 12:40 PM	#10
Walt NW User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Caney, Texas Posts: 90 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Tom and Doc, 100% correct. My uncle was attatched to a Luftwaffe 88 MM flak battery throughout the war (or at least until the Russians relieved him of that responsibility). While in France and Germany, he had been issued a Luger, but that was changed to a P-38 when he was transferred to the Russian front.

10-08-2005, 11:07 PM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Here are the scans that I made for Tom. Tom, I have them larger, plus these individual ones. Any others you wanted me to scan in and put on a CD, I can. Ed There are some other pictures of this pilot, and just glimpses of the holster. I would actually say that the other guy has a holster too, just can't tell what kind.