Help a newbie ID his piece

pigeonalley · 11-12-2005, 03:07 PM

I need help in finding what I have. Forgive me if I call things by the wrong name after all I am new here.
This piece looks like an 08 Serial # stamped on both receiver and barrel is 8X38 (X is of course a number) there is no suffix. All the marked parts are marked 38. The barrel is proofed with an eagle (looks like a lobster to me)as is the first proof on the receiver. The next next two marks on the receiver are a crown over a G and a crown over an S. (G&S could be something else)
There is no mark on the breech and the only marks on the toggle is the "DWM" and an eagle(proof) on the side.
There is no stock ramp or web safety.
There is also a unit mark on the strap; 79 . R . M . C . 80(smaller then rest) I would like to know about this unit.

The take down lever is numbered but is blued, is this correct? The trigger is numbered and strawed.

There are no import stamps and no sign of any tampering other then the passable re-blue.

Barrel is 3 and 1/8 inch measured from the receiver and is 9 mm P.

Feel free to email me if you want and thank you Rob

Dwight Gruber · 11-12-2005, 03:29 PM

Rob,

A preiliminary identification is that this is probably a 1908 First Issue Military. A few questions will help refine this.

The serial number is stamped on the receiver and barrel...do you really mean it is on the receiver, or on the frame front?

Are the eagle and c/letter proofs on the left side of the receiver or the right side?

Are the takedown lever and trigger plate numbered on their face or bottom edge?

Is there a number such as 8,82 stamped on the bottom of the barrel?

The barrel length is properly measured from the muzzle to the rear of the breech.

R.M.C. is not a regular unit stamp, are you sure it is not R.M.G.? Also, is the R an upright Roman R or a script italic R?

What is the magazine like, along with any markings on the base?

Always interesting to know about another early Imperial Military Luger. Got any pictures to show us?

--Dwight

pigeonalley · 11-12-2005, 03:50 PM

You are right it is on the frame. Other proofs are on the left above the take down lever. The lever and plate are marked on bottom (kind of out of sight)
The only barrel markings I see are the serial # and eagle proof.

You are also right it is a G and the R is upright Roman. before I put the piece up I chambered a round. The indicator has G... something on it.

The magazines are not original to the piece.
Barrel is 3 7/8

I just noticed a very small mark on the right side of frame just over the trigger of a crown over a P (so small I had to use a loop)

Dwight I want to thank you for your reply. Rob

pigeonalley · 11-12-2005, 06:13 PM

I'll "betcha" your right!

Thanks tac

pigeonalley · 11-12-2005, 06:17 PM

I'll try and get pictures tomorrow when I have better light. Anything in particular I need to shoot?

Dwight Gruber · 11-12-2005, 06:41 PM

Rob,

You have thoroughly identified a 1908 First Issue Military Luger. Production of these guns was actually begun in 1909; an estimated 25,000 units of this model were produced.

The takedown lever for this model should be strawed.

If you look just above and to the left of the small c/P above the trigger, in the frame rail, you should see a small, bright pin which has been added into the frame and dressed off to match the frame rail profile. 1908 Lugers were originally manufactured without a hold-open; in 1913 a directive was issued that P-08 in the field were to be returned to the Erfurt arsenal to be retrofitted with holdopens. This pin is part of the modification, and the stamp is the certification that it has been accomplished. At the same time the front sight was supposed to be modified, you should find a small c/letter on the sight block certifying that change.

79.R.M.G.80 should signify Machine Gun company of (infantry) Regiment no.79, weapon no.80. Unit mark identification is not my area of expertise, so others here will correct me if I am wrong, and perhaps have additional information.

As far as pictures are concerned, go through these Forums and look at profiles of Lugers which other correspondents have posted, and make your photographs accordingly.

--Dwight

pigeonalley · 11-12-2005, 07:43 PM

Dwight,

I want to thank you for your help! I will post pictures here and on the "Unit Marking" thread.
If I can ever be of help with an M-1 Garand let me know.

Rob

11-12-2005, 03:07 PM	#1
pigeonalley User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Wichita Falls, Texas Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Help a newbie ID his piece I need help in finding what I have. Forgive me if I call things by the wrong name after all I am new here. This piece looks like an 08 Serial # stamped on both receiver and barrel is 8X38 (X is of course a number) there is no suffix. All the marked parts are marked 38. The barrel is proofed with an eagle (looks like a lobster to me)as is the first proof on the receiver. The next next two marks on the receiver are a crown over a G and a crown over an S. (G&S could be something else) There is no mark on the breech and the only marks on the toggle is the "DWM" and an eagle(proof) on the side. There is no stock ramp or web safety. There is also a unit mark on the strap; 79 . R . M . C . 80(smaller then rest) I would like to know about this unit. The take down lever is numbered but is blued, is this correct? The trigger is numbered and strawed. There are no import stamps and no sign of any tampering other then the passable re-blue. Barrel is 3 and 1/8 inch measured from the receiver and is 9 mm P. Feel free to email me if you want and thank you Rob

11-12-2005, 03:29 PM	#2
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Rob, A preiliminary identification is that this is probably a 1908 First Issue Military. A few questions will help refine this. The serial number is stamped on the receiver and barrel...do you really mean it is on the receiver, or on the frame front? Are the eagle and c/letter proofs on the left side of the receiver or the right side? Are the takedown lever and trigger plate numbered on their face or bottom edge? Is there a number such as 8,82 stamped on the bottom of the barrel? The barrel length is properly measured from the muzzle to the rear of the breech. R.M.C. is not a regular unit stamp, are you sure it is not R.M.G.? Also, is the R an upright Roman R or a script italic R? What is the magazine like, along with any markings on the base? Always interesting to know about another early Imperial Military Luger. Got any pictures to show us? --Dwight

11-12-2005, 03:50 PM	#3
pigeonalley User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Wichita Falls, Texas Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	You are right it is on the frame. Other proofs are on the left above the take down lever. The lever and plate are marked on bottom (kind of out of sight) The only barrel markings I see are the serial # and eagle proof. You are also right it is a G and the R is upright Roman. before I put the piece up I chambered a round. The indicator has G... something on it. The magazines are not original to the piece. Barrel is 3 7/8 I just noticed a very small mark on the right side of frame just over the trigger of a crown over a P (so small I had to use a loop) Dwight I want to thank you for your reply. Rob

11-12-2005, 06:13 PM	#4
pigeonalley User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Wichita Falls, Texas Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'll "betcha" your right! Thanks tac

11-12-2005, 06:17 PM	#5
pigeonalley User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Wichita Falls, Texas Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'll try and get pictures tomorrow when I have better light. Anything in particular I need to shoot?

11-12-2005, 06:41 PM	#6
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Rob, You have thoroughly identified a 1908 First Issue Military Luger. Production of these guns was actually begun in 1909; an estimated 25,000 units of this model were produced. The takedown lever for this model should be strawed. If you look just above and to the left of the small c/P above the trigger, in the frame rail, you should see a small, bright pin which has been added into the frame and dressed off to match the frame rail profile. 1908 Lugers were originally manufactured without a hold-open; in 1913 a directive was issued that P-08 in the field were to be returned to the Erfurt arsenal to be retrofitted with holdopens. This pin is part of the modification, and the stamp is the certification that it has been accomplished. At the same time the front sight was supposed to be modified, you should find a small c/letter on the sight block certifying that change. 79.R.M.G.80 should signify Machine Gun company of (infantry) Regiment no.79, weapon no.80. Unit mark identification is not my area of expertise, so others here will correct me if I am wrong, and perhaps have additional information. As far as pictures are concerned, go through these Forums and look at profiles of Lugers which other correspondents have posted, and make your photographs accordingly. --Dwight

11-12-2005, 07:43 PM	#7
pigeonalley User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Wichita Falls, Texas Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Dwight, I want to thank you for your help! I will post pictures here and on the "Unit Marking" thread. If I can ever be of help with an M-1 Garand let me know. Rob