New byf 42 - what did I get?

Balder · 11-24-2006, 11:42 AM

Gentlemen,

I picked up my second byf 42 today, all matching and original finish. This one has a "d" suffix and wooden grips, whileas my other one is a "Black Widow" with an "e" suffix. Were the black plastic grips randomly distributed or is it known when they were introduced? I assume it should have a black plastic bottom magazine.
The left grip panel has a marking on the inside, does anybody know its meaning?

Regards,

Balder

Frank · 11-24-2006, 07:02 PM

Balder, your new Luger looks pretty good. Some wear and some minor rust (which you should try to remove).

The 42 byf could have either wood or Black Bakelite grips. The wooden grips should be numbered to the pistol (the last two digits of the serial number). In your case "38". Your grip is numbered "15", so it has replaced the original grip. Of course the Bakelite Grips are not numbered.

I don't know of any logic as to which type grip went to which pistol or group of pistols. There may be some, but so many of the grips have been replaced, it's tough to tell.

Balder · 11-24-2006, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Frank
Balder, your new Luger looks pretty good. Some wear and some minor rust (which you should try to remove).

Frank,

Thanks, I appreciate it. However, there is no live rust present, only rust pitting which is hard to do anything about.

Did all byf 42 Lugers come with the black plastic bottom magazine?

Regards,

Balder

Frank · 11-25-2006, 09:14 AM

Balder, I suspect your Luger was shipped with black plastic bottom fxo magazines. However, aluminum bottom fxo magazines with no bottom marks were also used for some time after about the W-Block of the 41 byf Luger Production. I am not sure when the Germans ran out of the aluminum bottoms and switched to the plastic material.

Your pistol was completed about 6 months after the serial numbers stopped being stamped on the magazine bottoms. I don't know what the backlog was at that time.

byf43 · 12-06-2006, 04:40 PM

When approximately did they stop stamping serials into the magazine buttom? Must be at some point in first half of 1941?

Balder, nice byf42.

Lugerdoc · 12-07-2006, 11:55 AM

Balder, The "z" under the 15 inside your grip is an inspector's mark. It appears that the 42 date on your reciever has been "peened" out. I recently parted out a 1936 where the inspector's marks (WaAs) on the right side of the receiver had been similarly peened out. I can only speculate, that this made WW2 lugers more legal to sell in Germany... Anyone know the real story: Israeli Army, DDR, Russians,etc. I've heard many theories. TH

Edward Tinker · 12-07-2006, 07:16 PM

I have heard this off and on for years, that the Israeli military was given lots of german arms.... One of those rumours or?

ed

Balder · 12-08-2006, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lugerdoc
It appears that the 42 date on your reciever has been "peened" out. I recently parted out a 1936 where the inspector's marks (WaAs) on the right side of the receiver had been similarly peened out. I can only speculate, that this made WW2 lugers more legal to sell in Germany... Anyone know the real story: Israeli Army, DDR, Russians,etc. I've heard many theories. TH

Tom,

I am not sure what you mean by "peened out", please enlighten me. This particular byf 42 has been in the Norwegian Army since ww2, so whatever it means it wasn't done in order to make it legal in any way.

Regards,

Balder

Edward Tinker · 12-08-2006, 02:10 AM

Balder, it appears at first glance to have been peened (hit with a hammer and small chisel) over the 42 marking.

ED

Balder · 12-08-2006, 05:38 AM

What to some may look like peening over the chamber is actually rust pitting.

tacfoley,

Thanks for letting me in on the finer points of peening. A day without learning anything is a wasted day.

Balder

Lugerdoc · 12-08-2006, 11:55 AM

TAC, Before 1948 when the Hagana was fighting the British, they were desperate for any kind of arms, and since there was a large surpus of former Nazi small arms in Europe, many found there way to Palistine. Many of these had the WaAs peened out and some that were later incorporated into the early Israeli Army, had their Hebrew symbol (looks like and upside down Y) added. I've only seen one luger, a Radom and a broom, with this symbol. TH

reich1900 · 12-14-2006, 09:17 PM

Balder, I also have a matching byf42 in the d block and it has the wooden grips # to the gun. It came with a FXO plastic bottom magazine, which I believe is correct for this gun. After taking a very close look at the proof makings on my gun they look very similar to yours. Mine were very lightly struck making any makings in the circle hard to make out and mine were definately not peened. I don't think yours were either.
Bernie

11-24-2006, 11:42 AM	#1
Balder User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 288 Thanks: 20 Thanked 34 Times in 19 Posts	New byf 42 - what did I get? Gentlemen, I picked up my second byf 42 today, all matching and original finish. This one has a "d" suffix and wooden grips, whileas my other one is a "Black Widow" with an "e" suffix. Were the black plastic grips randomly distributed or is it known when they were introduced? I assume it should have a black plastic bottom magazine. The left grip panel has a marking on the inside, does anybody know its meaning? Regards, Balder

12-07-2006, 11:55 AM	#6
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Balder, The "z" under the 15 inside your grip is an inspector's mark. It appears that the 42 date on your reciever has been "peened" out. I recently parted out a 1936 where the inspector's marks (WaAs) on the right side of the receiver had been similarly peened out. I can only speculate, that this made WW2 lugers more legal to sell in Germany... Anyone know the real story: Israeli Army, DDR, Russians,etc. I've heard many theories. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected]

12-07-2006, 07:16 PM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	I have heard this off and on for years, that the Israeli military was given lots of german arms.... One of those rumours or? ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-08-2006, 11:55 AM	#11
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	TAC, Before 1948 when the Hagana was fighting the British, they were desperate for any kind of arms, and since there was a large surpus of former Nazi small arms in Europe, many found there way to Palistine. Many of these had the WaAs peened out and some that were later incorporated into the early Israeli Army, had their Hebrew symbol (looks like and upside down Y) added. I've only seen one luger, a Radom and a broom, with this symbol. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected]

11-24-2006, 07:02 PM	#2
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Balder, your new Luger looks pretty good. Some wear and some minor rust (which you should try to remove). The 42 byf could have either wood or Black Bakelite grips. The wooden grips should be numbered to the pistol (the last two digits of the serial number). In your case "38". Your grip is numbered "15", so it has replaced the original grip. Of course the Bakelite Grips are not numbered. I don't know of any logic as to which type grip went to which pistol or group of pistols. There may be some, but so many of the grips have been replaced, it's tough to tell.

11-25-2006, 09:14 AM	#4
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Balder, I suspect your Luger was shipped with black plastic bottom fxo magazines. However, aluminum bottom fxo magazines with no bottom marks were also used for some time after about the W-Block of the 41 byf Luger Production. I am not sure when the Germans ran out of the aluminum bottoms and switched to the plastic material. Your pistol was completed about 6 months after the serial numbers stopped being stamped on the magazine bottoms. I don't know what the backlog was at that time.

12-06-2006, 04:40 PM	#5
byf43 User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 69 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	When approximately did they stop stamping serials into the magazine buttom? Must be at some point in first half of 1941? Balder, nice byf42.

12-08-2006, 02:10 AM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Balder, it appears at first glance to have been peened (hit with a hammer and small chisel) over the 42 marking. ED

12-08-2006, 05:38 AM	#10
Balder User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 288 Thanks: 20 Thanked 34 Times in 19 Posts	What to some may look like peening over the chamber is actually rust pitting. tacfoley, Thanks for letting me in on the finer points of peening. A day without learning anything is a wasted day. Balder

12-14-2006, 09:17 PM	#12
reich1900 User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Long Island, N.Y. Posts: 59 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Balder, I also have a matching byf42 in the d block and it has the wooden grips # to the gun. It came with a FXO plastic bottom magazine, which I believe is correct for this gun. After taking a very close look at the proof makings on my gun they look very similar to yours. Mine were very lightly struck making any makings in the circle hard to make out and mine were definately not peened. I don't think yours were either. Bernie