Unsafe?

I have read in a couple of different places that some of these guns are quite dangerous because the Belgian factory workers would sabotage them. I have often wondered, but do not know, how a worker could alter a pistol at the factory so that it would pass the intial inspections without the worker being executed but still blow up in the hands of the Germans at a later date.


Having said the above, I am sure that your friend would not want to take the risk of keeping the above weapon. If he is willing to pay the shipping charges, I will selflessly take it upon myself to dispose of it for him.

Sorry, this was supposed to have been posted below in the Hi Power thread. As my gunsmithing skills rank right up there with my computer expertise, you can understand how I don't know how to expertly sabotage pistols.

I've been around a while (born Jan. 1943, the "dark days" of WW II, for all sides), and have been collecting since the 50's. In all my years of interest, I've NEVER heard of any TR produced weapon "blowing up" because of sabotage, or any other reason.

[Marvin]

Polizei,


I agree with you! I have read all this about some of the German pistols but never seen one or seem photos with an analysis of what happened. I think it is like the 1903 Springfield rifles that did blow from bad heat treatment. In Hatcher's book, he documented this very well and only a few actually blew up and no one was seriously hurt. The low numbered Springfields got the reputation that if they were fired, they would kill you from the explosion. What most people don't relize is that the Army used these rifles for years with no problems and then decided to stop using them. A wise move on their part, but I don't feel they were that dangerous. I have had several of these low number rifles and they fired fine.


I am sure some of the workers did try to sabotage some weapons, but most were probably cought at inspection. The testing and proofing of German firearms was closely monitored until the last few weeks of the war when the plant was cut-off from delivery.


Marvin

[Johnny Peppers]

Marvin,

In Hatcher's Notebook he has a serial number list of the 1903 Rifles that failed. Several people were injured severely, and several lost the eyesight in one eye. The records of failure were compiled for just a few years, and no one knows how many rifles failed during WWI in the trenches or how many failed after the records were no longer kept. Virtually all of the records of failure were compiled from cases in the US. In the case of the 1903 rifles, the problem was in the heat treatment and ordnance knew there was a problem. The military could hardly scrap every 1903 rifle so they recommended that as the rifles came in for rebuild that the receivers known to be in the improper heat treatment range be scrapped. This was done for many years, but when WWII broke out the early brittle receivers were rebuilt for service. The military stopped obtaining new 1903 rifles in 1927, and almost all receivers made after this time were used either for replacements for the brittle receivers or as civilian sales rifles.

[Dok]

I think in many cases it was the ammo that was sabotaged. They messed with the specs of the cartridges so that while the guns worked fine, the ammo often would not. Anuone have any data on that?

[Johnny Peppers]

The early 1903 receivers were heat treated by eyeballing the color of the steel instead of using pyrometers. Some of the receivers were heated much too hot, and the result was a glass hard receiver. Some were so brittle that they could be shattered when tapped with a hammer. There were reports of GI's using 8mm Mauser in their 1903, but as most of the reports came from US Army bases it has never been explained how US troops got 8mm Mauser ammo on a US Army base. It was also a fact that these receivers had a safety factor of only 50% where the later receivers had a safety factor of near 150%. When gas got back into one of the brittle receivers, it shattered into pieces where the later heat treated receivers would bulge but remain intact.

[Marvin]

Johnny,


Good points you made! I wish I had the time yesterday morning to look at Hatcher's Notebook, but you had have done a great job of filling in the blanks. I agree that that some were severely injured, but I don't think there ever was any loss of life. With the military continuing the use of some of the receivers, I wonder how so many got out into the public system? I have had several and they fired fine with no problems. I guess it was just the ones that were BAD that actually cracked in sevice and the military figured that if they had held up that long, they were OK. Interesting topic on the receivers.


Marvin

[Johnny Peppers]

Marvin,

I have a friend that received his low number Rock Island 1903 through the DCM. It had been rebuilt early in WWII, but apparently was not issued. About a year ago there was a report on either G&K or CSP about one of the early receivers literally breaking in half. It had been drilled and tapped and fractured right down the screw holes.

[Bob Egan]

I recall reading in a reputable publication some time ago that some late war production Mausers were possibly unsafe due to a small hall being drilled through the chamber.This hole was hidden beneath the upper wooden handguard.Also, many artillery shells were sabotaged by forced workers, they were duds.