Large manual in blue cover

LU1900 · 04-13-2007, 11:17 AM

.........

John Sabato · 04-13-2007, 04:27 PM

I know it won't be inexpensive Pat... I have never seen one printed in French before! Nice find!

Ron Wood · 04-13-2007, 04:30 PM

Man! I would love to have that manual to go with my 1903 French!

Navy · 04-13-2007, 05:46 PM

I saw one of these change hands about 2-3 years ago..it went for $2500

Tom A

Ron Wood · 04-13-2007, 05:50 PM

Ouch!

Imperial Arms · 04-13-2007, 06:27 PM

Actually these early DWM manuals (including the one in French language) were available for M1900/02 Lugers, as well as the M1906 French Commercial even if the toggles are shown dished in these early manuals. The similar manual in German language (Green cover) has no golden boarders.

In my opinion, the value of these manuals are about Euros 700 or $950. Whoever paid $2,500 for a similar manual definitely got ripped off. During my travels in Europe (including France) in the past few years, I had the opportunity to buy three of these French manuals from different collectors. However, I was searching for one in German or English language. I was offered one in German, but one page was missing in the manual and I decided not to buy it.

Albert

Ron Wood · 04-13-2007, 08:14 PM

Well now, that's more like it! Maybe I will eventually be able to get one after all. Thanks for the input Albert.

mauro · 04-13-2007, 08:25 PM

Hi Pat,
Really nice find!!
Please try to find for me the other French manual made in 1950 for the French Army. As you know I am really interested on it

I call you next week as soon as I am back from my vacation...

Cheers,
Mauro

Edward Tinker · 04-14-2007, 12:43 AM

I am just thinking out loud, but I think you have to add 50% for resale in the USA. Seriously, possibly 75% for larger items. I am thinking of the guys who buy antiques in europe, for resale in the USA, as you would add 50-75% to items that just can't be found in america.

So, although there might be assorted ones in europe, the comparassion might be, how many have folks seen in the USA? I am thinking of the comparative rareness of things like Finn, Porteguese (sp), Persian Lugers, etc in the past, and as more came into the USA, their value dropped.

If someone found 5 or 10 of them and sold them in the USA, I would expect the cost would go down, or possibly up as more folks could get excited about them

Ed

Imperial Arms · 04-14-2007, 03:32 AM

With the growing use and exposure to the Internet, many European collectors are now trying to fetch similar prices of their collector items which have previously sold in the US through some auction houses. Everything has a realistic market value, however, there are some 'idiots' out there with loaded pockets of cash who are buying collector items without knowing their actual value, or whether the item is correct or has been restored - maybe these individuals do not mind paying 75% over and above the market value without realizing also that the USD has lost 35% against the Euro. Eventually, these fools may regret their mistakes, and such unfortunate situations are occurring right now. I have four manuals in my archive that are worth between $1,500 - $2,000 which are rarer than a early DWM manual and I wonder if they will double or triple in value in the next five years or so - $4,000+ for a manual? Jesus!! An average collector will never have a chance to own such an expensive item unless he is extremely lucky to find this item at a flea market for a cheap price.

Some rich collectors are very emotional and they throw money down on a table without blinking an eye - they buy with their eyes and get all excited over some details such as a marking, color, shape, or the type of material used for a part. Do not misunderstand me, but I do not consider some wealthy individuals as expert collectors because they do not invest time to gain knowledge - they believe that money buys them everything including knowledge - wrong. When prices of certain items go ballistic, it is usually a short-term peak/spike in the economy/market, and most likely prices will return to normal after those buyers realize their mistakes and later try to sell the same items on the market.

It is a good feeling to obtain the highest price of an item, but this 'game' always has two sides. It is important to be wise and not have false expectations.

Good luck and enjoy,
Albert

cirelaw · 04-14-2007, 03:05 PM

Hi ERIC, I own a 1906 Frenh Armes luger, And notice that Tom at 'phoenixinvestmentarms.com. has another 1906 french luger for sale, But I couldnt dream paying one half the price of the Luger for a French Manual, It really doesnt change anything, Albert as alwars has good advice.

cirelaw · 04-14-2007, 08:21 PM

etric, 'THE LAND OF BORCHARD' contains copies or all early luger manuals, in different languages, a facinating site, save your pennies

Ron Wood · 04-14-2007, 11:24 PM

"The Land of Borchardt" is a fantastic collection representing many thousands of dollars and a lot of dedication and research by Mike. Here is one I don't think he has yet...but given enough time he probably will get a representative example of the Luger and manual one day.

Ron Smith · 04-14-2007, 11:45 PM

Ron,

Purty Cool!!! You're making my jaws ache.

Ron

MFC · 04-15-2007, 02:06 AM

Hi Ron,
Very nice! Nearly impossible to find.
How many known examples are there of these?
While your at it, can you tell us at which flea market you found it?

Mike C.

Imperial Arms · 04-15-2007, 04:39 AM

Ron, that's one hell of a combo, and your Russian is in great condition!

Congrats,
Albert

cirelaw · 04-15-2007, 08:11 AM

Was a guide supplied with the 1900 test luger?

the gunman · 04-15-2007, 10:38 AM

Ron what a wonderful treasure that is. Just great looking at the photo

Ron Wood · 04-15-2007, 10:46 AM

Thank you gentlemen. This is one of the prizes of my collection.

Mike,
The Luger came out of a bar in New Jersey where it had been used to pay a rather large overdue bar tab sometime in the '50s. I do not know how many examples there are still around, but I suspect less than a dozen originals with probably just as many fakes. The manual came out of St. Petersburg, Russia, and is the only example in a collection that I have heard of so far.

Eric,
I am not aware of any specific guide provided with the 1900 Test Luger. I would think that if any were provided, they would have been the same as any contemporary 1900 Commercial manual.

cirelaw · 05-15-2007, 12:26 PM

ERIC, ESQ, I own a 1906 french d'arms luger, serial number #51872, and Ive searched, high and low for a french manual, contact me if you have one, just gathering dust!! '[email protected]

04-13-2007, 11:17 AM	#1
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 908 Thanks: 42 Thanked 469 Times in 197 Posts	Large manual in blue cover ......... __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

04-13-2007, 04:27 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	I know it won't be inexpensive Pat... I have never seen one printed in French before! Nice find! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-13-2007, 04:30 PM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	Man! I would love to have that manual to go with my 1903 French! __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

04-13-2007, 08:14 PM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	Well now, that's more like it! Maybe I will eventually be able to get one after all. Thanks for the input Albert. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

04-13-2007, 08:25 PM	#8
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Hi Pat, Really nice find!! Please try to find for me the other French manual made in 1950 for the French Army. As you know I am really interested on it I call you next week as soon as I am back from my vacation... Cheers, Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

04-13-2007, 05:46 PM	#4
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	I saw one of these change hands about 2-3 years ago..it went for $2500 Tom A

04-13-2007, 05:50 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	Ouch! __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

04-13-2007, 06:27 PM	#6
Imperial Arms Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malta, EU Posts: 579 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Actually these early DWM manuals (including the one in French language) were available for M1900/02 Lugers, as well as the M1906 French Commercial even if the toggles are shown dished in these early manuals. The similar manual in German language (Green cover) has no golden boarders. In my opinion, the value of these manuals are about Euros 700 or $950. Whoever paid $2,500 for a similar manual definitely got ripped off. During my travels in Europe (including France) in the past few years, I had the opportunity to buy three of these French manuals from different collectors. However, I was searching for one in German or English language. I was offered one in German, but one page was missing in the manual and I decided not to buy it. Albert

04-14-2007, 12:43 AM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,936 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	I am just thinking out loud, but I think you have to add 50% for resale in the USA. Seriously, possibly 75% for larger items. I am thinking of the guys who buy antiques in europe, for resale in the USA, as you would add 50-75% to items that just can't be found in america. So, although there might be assorted ones in europe, the comparassion might be, how many have folks seen in the USA? I am thinking of the comparative rareness of things like Finn, Porteguese (sp), Persian Lugers, etc in the past, and as more came into the USA, their value dropped. If someone found 5 or 10 of them and sold them in the USA, I would expect the cost would go down, or possibly up as more folks could get excited about them Ed

04-14-2007, 03:32 AM	#10
Imperial Arms Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malta, EU Posts: 579 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	With the growing use and exposure to the Internet, many European collectors are now trying to fetch similar prices of their collector items which have previously sold in the US through some auction houses. Everything has a realistic market value, however, there are some 'idiots' out there with loaded pockets of cash who are buying collector items without knowing their actual value, or whether the item is correct or has been restored - maybe these individuals do not mind paying 75% over and above the market value without realizing also that the USD has lost 35% against the Euro. Eventually, these fools may regret their mistakes, and such unfortunate situations are occurring right now. I have four manuals in my archive that are worth between $1,500 - $2,000 which are rarer than a early DWM manual and I wonder if they will double or triple in value in the next five years or so - $4,000+ for a manual? Jesus!! An average collector will never have a chance to own such an expensive item unless he is extremely lucky to find this item at a flea market for a cheap price. Some rich collectors are very emotional and they throw money down on a table without blinking an eye - they buy with their eyes and get all excited over some details such as a marking, color, shape, or the type of material used for a part. Do not misunderstand me, but I do not consider some wealthy individuals as expert collectors because they do not invest time to gain knowledge - they believe that money buys them everything including knowledge - wrong. When prices of certain items go ballistic, it is usually a short-term peak/spike in the economy/market, and most likely prices will return to normal after those buyers realize their mistakes and later try to sell the same items on the market. It is a good feeling to obtain the highest price of an item, but this 'game' always has two sides. It is important to be wise and not have false expectations. Good luck and enjoy, Albert

04-14-2007, 03:05 PM	#11
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Hi ERIC, I own a 1906 Frenh Armes luger, And notice that Tom at 'phoenixinvestmentarms.com. has another 1906 french luger for sale, But I couldnt dream paying one half the price of the Luger for a French Manual, It really doesnt change anything, Albert as alwars has good advice.

04-14-2007, 08:21 PM	#12
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	etric, 'THE LAND OF BORCHARD' contains copies or all early luger manuals, in different languages, a facinating site, save your pennies

04-14-2007, 11:24 PM	#13
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	"The Land of Borchardt" is a fantastic collection representing many thousands of dollars and a lot of dedication and research by Mike. Here is one I don't think he has yet...but given enough time he probably will get a representative example of the Luger and manual one day. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

04-14-2007, 11:45 PM	#14
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Ron, Purty Cool!!! You're making my jaws ache. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

04-15-2007, 02:06 AM	#15
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Hi Ron, Very nice! Nearly impossible to find. How many known examples are there of these? While your at it, can you tell us at which flea market you found it? Mike C. __________________ Mike C.

04-15-2007, 04:39 AM	#16
Imperial Arms Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malta, EU Posts: 579 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Ron, that's one hell of a combo, and your Russian is in great condition! Congrats, Albert

04-15-2007, 08:11 AM	#17
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Was a guide supplied with the 1900 test luger?

04-15-2007, 10:38 AM	#18
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	Ron what a wonderful treasure that is. Just great looking at the photo

04-15-2007, 10:46 AM	#19
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	Thank you gentlemen. This is one of the prizes of my collection. Mike, The Luger came out of a bar in New Jersey where it had been used to pay a rather large overdue bar tab sometime in the '50s. I do not know how many examples there are still around, but I suspect less than a dozen originals with probably just as many fakes. The manual came out of St. Petersburg, Russia, and is the only example in a collection that I have heard of so far. Eric, I am not aware of any specific guide provided with the 1900 Test Luger. I would think that if any were provided, they would have been the same as any contemporary 1900 Commercial manual. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

05-15-2007, 12:26 PM	#20
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	ERIC, ESQ, I own a 1906 french d'arms luger, serial number #51872, and Ive searched, high and low for a french manual, contact me if you have one, just gathering dust!! '[email protected]