BYF 41 Ku

waltherguy · 08-06-2007, 04:06 PM

We'll I have posted pics of this gun before on a Ku thread.. but the owner finally decided to sell it along with the holster it was purchased with 30+ years ago (see holster thread) so I decided to grab it. This Poor old girl is rough as you can see... And although I probably paid to much.. I guess I bought it only because it was a Ku & had Bakelite grips. Couple questions I have are, the serial is 1069 and I see no evidence whatsoever of a suffix? The barrel is totally unmarked although there may be a small Ku proof that pitting has all but made disappear. The Toggle is also stamped with the Ku proof. Its all matching except for an unnumbered toggle pin & the sideplate (if anyone has a Mauser sideplate stamped 69 please let me know! ) And lastly... although this topic is of much debate.. any thoughts on having someone like Thor try & restore it? Or should I leave it alone.. I'd usually not consider it.. but as you can see its pretty rough..

Thanks guys!

byf43 · 08-07-2007, 02:07 AM

Usually I'm against rebluing P08's but this one I'd probably do it. However it has to be done with respect for the gun's original looks.

Can you please help me regarding the proof mark on the side of the frame? It's not how I would expect it to be on a byf?

waltherguy · 08-07-2007, 11:08 AM

Sure.. this is one of the mysterious "KU" Lugers... you can do a search on the thread for "KU" and find some good info, although there is much still not known about these guns. Also you can see a better picture of the proof in the Technical info section.

Thanks for your feedback!

John Sabato · 08-07-2007, 01:31 PM

Please post clear photos of the inside of the grips. I believe they may be reproductions based on what I already see...

waltherguy · 08-07-2007, 02:28 PM

Hi John,

Ya I kinda wondered that myself.. I'll take some pics and post later today....

Regards,,
RG

Edward Tinker · 08-07-2007, 05:56 PM

being a KU, I don't think I'd "restore" it. KU's are usually found used hard...

waltherguy · 08-07-2007, 06:34 PM

Thanks Ed, ya I guess I'll leave it alone... I mean I kinda figured.. although it does have a mis-match side plate.. I paid less than lowest listed KU value (60% I think?) in last years blue book for it & the holster I posted in the holster thread so maybe I didn't do too bad. And honestly.. it doesn't look quite as bad in person as it does in the pics.. it has a patina that the flash makes worse than it actually is.. anyway.. it is what it is I guess.. interesting piece to say the least.. Any more thoughts or info would be great guys.. thanks to all that have commented so far! (also..pic of back of grips) I don't know enough about the Bakelite grips to make an educated guess.. I have never examined the repro's

c3006 · 08-07-2007, 07:11 PM

She does look like shes done some things,if it were mine id leave it be. clint

waltherguy · 08-09-2007, 09:10 PM

anyone have a positive on the grips?

John Sabato · 08-13-2007, 01:22 AM

IMHO the grips are reproductions... sorry Reggie.

waltherguy · 08-13-2007, 11:50 AM

Thanks for you feedback John... now I must ask.. what makes you think so? Anyone else have any thoughts on this..

John Sabato · 08-13-2007, 12:13 PM

Width of the border around the checkering (too wide) and the checkering looks too smooth as it appears in the photos... (the smooth checkering could be the result of some artificial addition like lacquer or wax, but I don't think so...It doesn't look like period bakelite to me)

condition of the surface of the inside face of te grips... (bubbles and holes?)

location and size of the holes (Threaded or otherwise) seems out of character...

location and shape of the positioning islands on the inside...

waltherguy · 08-13-2007, 05:54 PM

Thanks John.. bad to hear for this purchase... but good information for future reference.. much appreciated..

RG

John Sabato · 08-13-2007, 11:35 PM

do a seach of the forum on black widow grips and you should find some good photo comparisons of the genuine and faked grips...

...and you are quite welcome... just sorry it was bad news.

Edward Tinker · 08-13-2007, 11:59 PM

Also, in this FAQ, it states; http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...threadid=13121

Quote:

21. Some differences in telling fake or real Black Widow grips:
22. Black grips first came out when?

08-06-2007, 04:06 PM	#1
waltherguy User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: FL Posts: 201 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	BYF 41 Ku We'll I have posted pics of this gun before on a Ku thread.. but the owner finally decided to sell it along with the holster it was purchased with 30+ years ago (see holster thread) so I decided to grab it. This Poor old girl is rough as you can see... And although I probably paid to much.. I guess I bought it only because it was a Ku & had Bakelite grips. Couple questions I have are, the serial is 1069 and I see no evidence whatsoever of a suffix? The barrel is totally unmarked although there may be a small Ku proof that pitting has all but made disappear. The Toggle is also stamped with the Ku proof. Its all matching except for an unnumbered toggle pin & the sideplate (if anyone has a Mauser sideplate stamped 69 please let me know! ) And lastly... although this topic is of much debate.. any thoughts on having someone like Thor try & restore it? Or should I leave it alone.. I'd usually not consider it.. but as you can see its pretty rough.. Thanks guys! __________________ "In a man to man fight the winner is the one who puts an extra round in his magazine" -Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

08-07-2007, 11:08 AM	#3
waltherguy User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: FL Posts: 201 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sure.. this is one of the mysterious "KU" Lugers... you can do a search on the thread for "KU" and find some good info, although there is much still not known about these guns. Also you can see a better picture of the proof in the Technical info section. Thanks for your feedback! __________________ "In a man to man fight the winner is the one who puts an extra round in his magazine" -Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

08-07-2007, 01:31 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Please post clear photos of the inside of the grips. I believe they may be reproductions based on what I already see... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-07-2007, 02:28 PM	#5
waltherguy User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: FL Posts: 201 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi John, Ya I kinda wondered that myself.. I'll take some pics and post later today.... Regards,, RG __________________ "In a man to man fight the winner is the one who puts an extra round in his magazine" -Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

08-07-2007, 05:56 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	being a KU, I don't think I'd "restore" it. KU's are usually found used hard... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-07-2007, 02:07 AM	#2
byf43 User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 69 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Usually I'm against rebluing P08's but this one I'd probably do it. However it has to be done with respect for the gun's original looks. Can you please help me regarding the proof mark on the side of the frame? It's not how I would expect it to be on a byf?

08-07-2007, 06:34 PM	#7
waltherguy User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: FL Posts: 201 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Ed, ya I guess I'll leave it alone... I mean I kinda figured.. although it does have a mis-match side plate.. I paid less than lowest listed KU value (60% I think?) in last years blue book for it & the holster I posted in the holster thread so maybe I didn't do too bad. And honestly.. it doesn't look quite as bad in person as it does in the pics.. it has a patina that the flash makes worse than it actually is.. anyway.. it is what it is I guess.. interesting piece to say the least.. Any more thoughts or info would be great guys.. thanks to all that have commented so far! (also..pic of back of grips) I don't know enough about the Bakelite grips to make an educated guess.. I have never examined the repro's __________________ "In a man to man fight the winner is the one who puts an extra round in his magazine" -Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

08-07-2007, 07:11 PM	#8
c3006 User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: east tn Posts: 526 Thanks: 5 Thanked 12 Times in 5 Posts	She does look like shes done some things,if it were mine id leave it be. clint __________________ Men Accustomed unto thier arms and their liberties will never endure the yoke. James Harrington 1776

08-09-2007, 09:10 PM	#9
waltherguy User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: FL Posts: 201 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	anyone have a positive on the grips? __________________ "In a man to man fight the winner is the one who puts an extra round in his magazine" -Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

08-13-2007, 01:22 AM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	IMHO the grips are reproductions... sorry Reggie. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-13-2007, 11:50 AM	#11
waltherguy User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: FL Posts: 201 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for you feedback John... now I must ask.. what makes you think so? Anyone else have any thoughts on this.. __________________ "In a man to man fight the winner is the one who puts an extra round in his magazine" -Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

08-13-2007, 12:13 PM	#12
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Width of the border around the checkering (too wide) and the checkering looks too smooth as it appears in the photos... (the smooth checkering could be the result of some artificial addition like lacquer or wax, but I don't think so...It doesn't look like period bakelite to me) condition of the surface of the inside face of te grips... (bubbles and holes?) location and size of the holes (Threaded or otherwise) seems out of character... location and shape of the positioning islands on the inside... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-13-2007, 05:54 PM	#13
waltherguy User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: FL Posts: 201 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks John.. bad to hear for this purchase... but good information for future reference.. much appreciated.. RG __________________ "In a man to man fight the winner is the one who puts an extra round in his magazine" -Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

08-13-2007, 11:35 PM	#14
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	do a seach of the forum on black widow grips and you should find some good photo comparisons of the genuine and faked grips... ...and you are quite welcome... just sorry it was bad news. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*