Simson SN 9028

Edward Tinker · 08-18-2007, 06:47 PM

I posted this on Jan Stills forum, but wanted to post it here also, as there are some members here, not on Jans forum and vice versa.

I was at the Chantilly, VA gunshow several weekends ago, intending to sell a couple of guns and instead found a jewel among the rabble. I do have to thank Keoki, as he told me about it and led me to the table where it sat.

Simson lugers are most commonly found with eagle 6 (E6) acceptance markings, with the 2nd most commonly found being the eagle 33 (E33). Graham Johnson and myself have 395 serial numbers in our database, with 144 that we have examined or had collector friends who have examined and provided proofs on the right side.

Those acceptance markings found on Simsons are not actually Simson markings, but inspectors assigned to Simson. Markings found are E6, E33, E67, E81, and on two guns we have eagle 45. There have been rumours of magazines having Eagle 46, and with Costanzo stating they were Simson markings. I have never seen an E46 on a Simson luger and doubted they were correct on magazines, until this weekend.

The small eagle 6 (e6) is unknown why it is smaller. It is seen on a percentage of simson lugers, not uncommon, but seen. I assume it was some kind of double check by a senior inspector, but this is unknown.

This is sn 9028, (toggle Simson & Co, Suhl marked, and not dated) a new number to my database and the first eagle 46 I had seen (on Monday night I talked to another collector, who had heard me excited about the E46 and when he got home, his was an E46! His is sn 9283, and I have to wonder how many other E46 there are not seen yet). However, it is not a common marking, or we would have seen it previously. In fact, less than 2 months ago, I told two friends categorically that I did not believe E46 was a Simson marking (acceptance / inspector marking). Obviously it is an uncommon acceptance marking, but truly a Simson! I am converted and agree with Costanzo on this marking.

SN 9028 is a well used example, but one I was more than happy to buy. Its grips are marked with all 4 of the serial number and E6 stamped (all 4 is correct for simsons). While the stock lug is marked with E6 E6 (we have also seen E33 E33, with one reported E6 E7 marking)...

As I looked at this, I saw that its gripstrap was unit marked! Our research has shown that unit markings are even rarer than dated examples; i.e, 700 total dated guns made in 1925 and 1926, with 47 being reported (19 of those 47 reported were observed and physically seen by collectors)

Unit markings have been seen in smaller numbers than the dateds', with unit markings have been observed for schools, a few police markings, and a couple of assorted army units. This unit J.S.223 translates into Infantry School weapon number 223. Jan has weapon #206, and is the only other J.S. I have seen.

In our Simson database, we have the following units marks:
5 Artillery School
2 Infantry School
2 Cavalry School
2 N. Za.K.3 marked
1 Pioneer School
8 different assorted unit markings

As Jan states in this thread; http://luger.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=204 General Rommel served at the infantry school and with few lugers assigned, it is always possible he handled either of our lugers

Russ · 08-18-2007, 07:52 PM

Very nice Ed. Will you have with you it this next week? Looking forwared to catching up on old times....

Russ

Edward Tinker · 08-18-2007, 07:58 PM

No, if I was driving I was going to bring 2 or 3, but flying causes me too much doubt (I have flown with guns before, but my plane connections are x 2 and also short duration of trip).

Will be good to see you. Evidently will be several good friends at the convention.

Ed

08-18-2007, 06:47 PM	#1
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Simson SN 9028 I posted this on Jan Stills forum, but wanted to post it here also, as there are some members here, not on Jans forum and vice versa. I was at the Chantilly, VA gunshow several weekends ago, intending to sell a couple of guns and instead found a jewel among the rabble. I do have to thank Keoki, as he told me about it and led me to the table where it sat. Simson lugers are most commonly found with eagle 6 (E6) acceptance markings, with the 2nd most commonly found being the eagle 33 (E33). Graham Johnson and myself have 395 serial numbers in our database, with 144 that we have examined or had collector friends who have examined and provided proofs on the right side. Those acceptance markings found on Simsons are not actually Simson markings, but inspectors assigned to Simson. Markings found are E6, E33, E67, E81, and on two guns we have eagle 45. There have been rumours of magazines having Eagle 46, and with Costanzo stating they were Simson markings. I have never seen an E46 on a Simson luger and doubted they were correct on magazines, until this weekend. The small eagle 6 (e6) is unknown why it is smaller. It is seen on a percentage of simson lugers, not uncommon, but seen. I assume it was some kind of double check by a senior inspector, but this is unknown. This is sn 9028, (toggle Simson & Co, Suhl marked, and not dated) a new number to my database and the first eagle 46 I had seen (on Monday night I talked to another collector, who had heard me excited about the E46 and when he got home, his was an E46! His is sn 9283, and I have to wonder how many other E46 there are not seen yet). However, it is not a common marking, or we would have seen it previously. In fact, less than 2 months ago, I told two friends categorically that I did not believe E46 was a Simson marking (acceptance / inspector marking). Obviously it is an uncommon acceptance marking, but truly a Simson! I am converted and agree with Costanzo on this marking. SN 9028 is a well used example, but one I was more than happy to buy. Its grips are marked with all 4 of the serial number and E6 stamped (all 4 is correct for simsons). While the stock lug is marked with E6 E6 (we have also seen E33 E33, with one reported E6 E7 marking)... As I looked at this, I saw that its gripstrap was unit marked! Our research has shown that unit markings are even rarer than dated examples; i.e, 700 total dated guns made in 1925 and 1926, with 47 being reported (19 of those 47 reported were observed and physically seen by collectors) Unit markings have been seen in smaller numbers than the dateds', with unit markings have been observed for schools, a few police markings, and a couple of assorted army units. This unit J.S.223 translates into Infantry School weapon number 223. Jan has weapon #206, and is the only other J.S. I have seen. In our Simson database, we have the following units marks: 5 Artillery School 2 Infantry School 2 Cavalry School 2 N. Za.K.3 marked 1 Pioneer School 8 different assorted unit markings As Jan states in this thread; http://luger.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=204 General Rommel served at the infantry school and with few lugers assigned, it is always possible he handled either of our lugers __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-18-2007, 07:58 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	No, if I was driving I was going to bring 2 or 3, but flying causes me too much doubt (I have flown with guns before, but my plane connections are x 2 and also short duration of trip). Will be good to see you. Evidently will be several good friends at the convention. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-18-2007, 07:52 PM	#2
Russ User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Reading, PA. Posts: 628 Thanks: 2 Thanked 38 Times in 10 Posts	Very nice Ed. Will you have with you it this next week? Looking forwared to catching up on old times.... Russ __________________ Livin the dream!!!!!!!!!!!