Undated P-08

likepistols · 03-26-2008, 06:13 PM

My original post asked about identifying a P-08 and I have received a wealth of information, thanks to all!

The pistol is a 1942 byf (Mauser) P-08 Serial 4477 with excellent bluing (black) and a plum colored extractor. Serial numbers visible all match. There is no visible rust and the barrel is in excellent condition although it should be cleaned. The grips are black and this all points to this being one of the "Black Widow" variety of Lugers.

The previous owner left one of the two magazines loaded but the headstamp on the brass is: W R A Co 9mm Luger. Since the Germans did not refer to this weapon as a "Luger" it seems unlikely that this is WWII ammunition. Also, I suspect that W R A Co stands for Winchester Repeating Arms Company and conclude that this is left over ammunition from a previous outing.

Based on some of the comments this may be a collector grade weapon. Is there a "most popular and reliable" place to get an appraisal?

Is the picture still there? It doesn't show anymore when I log in although I can see the link here in the message>

William

alvin · 03-26-2008, 07:07 PM

Welcome to the forum!

Chamber date and toggle stamp are not independent. Two stamps are related -- If you see "42" on chamber, you are supposed to see "byf" on top of toggle. If that's true, it's a 1942 byf (Mauser).

Black grips are common on 42 byf. It's so common that people has assigned a name to it "Black Widow". I heard there are lots of fake grips. I am new on this, but experts on this forum could help you on grip details if you post detail pictures.

You mentioned it's in good condition but has no bluing. Is it chrome-plated? or has lost its black-tone gun blue over the past 60+ years? Pictures should help.

John Sabato · 03-27-2008, 10:03 AM

William,

If you need help posting photographs so we can advise you on this purchase, let us know here and someone will help you get your photos posted.

Welcome to the Lugerforum

likepistols · 03-27-2008, 04:59 PM

I need help, I cannot find the button to add the pictures.

John Sabato · 03-27-2008, 05:23 PM

Upload feature for photos is on the top right of every page... photos can only be 200k in size or smaller... once you successfully upload the photo then copy the URL for the photo location and use the IMG button to put it in your post...

If you still need help. ask again.

Steinar · 03-28-2008, 04:25 AM

Your Luger is not 'undated' or perticular unusual. The bakelite grips are also quite common, but they can change hands for some insane prices these days. If you take some close up pictures, especially around the holes on the inside, it might be possible to say if they are original or not. ..or you can do a search in the forum on how to check it yourself.

You are however looking at one of the best Lugers made! And for me it looks like a honest good excample, a collector grade Luger. I would buy it

alvin · 03-28-2008, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by likepistols
Regarding the bluing; this appears to be in very good condition. It just isn't the intense dark blue seen on new steel. Figures! The ejector also shows what I understand is called "straws", it is multicolored gold.

Everything is supposed to be "black" on this one, including ejector and other small parts. Many Black Widows have plum colored ejector, some even show plum color on receiver.

One thing that I have not figured out yet -- so many Black Widows are in minty condition, the minty rate is way higher than any other Luger variations. It's a military gun, looks like many were captured in unissued condition.

John Sabato · 03-28-2008, 09:51 AM

The ejector color will not necessarily be "blue" because it is very hard to keep it from being deformed during the pounding of ejection. You seem to have an honest 42. Please do yourself a favor and remove the grips and get yourself some reproduction shooting grips. These 60 year old bakelite grips are very prone to breakage. I have seen them trade for between $200 and $300 dollars recently... they are too fragile to keep on the gun. and too valuable to shoot with.

Aaron · 03-28-2008, 10:17 AM

These late Lugers probably didn't make it into the hands of the troops untill 1943 or even later. This means they were probably in service for a much shorter time than most other Lugers, and thus are encountered in much better condition that most.

03-26-2008, 06:13 PM	#1
likepistols New User Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Undated P-08 My original post asked about identifying a P-08 and I have received a wealth of information, thanks to all! The pistol is a 1942 byf (Mauser) P-08 Serial 4477 with excellent bluing (black) and a plum colored extractor. Serial numbers visible all match. There is no visible rust and the barrel is in excellent condition although it should be cleaned. The grips are black and this all points to this being one of the "Black Widow" variety of Lugers. The previous owner left one of the two magazines loaded but the headstamp on the brass is: W R A Co 9mm Luger. Since the Germans did not refer to this weapon as a "Luger" it seems unlikely that this is WWII ammunition. Also, I suspect that W R A Co stands for Winchester Repeating Arms Company and conclude that this is left over ammunition from a previous outing. Based on some of the comments this may be a collector grade weapon. Is there a "most popular and reliable" place to get an appraisal? Is the picture still there? It doesn't show anymore when I log in although I can see the link here in the message> William

03-27-2008, 10:03 AM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	William, If you need help posting photographs so we can advise you on this purchase, let us know here and someone will help you get your photos posted. Welcome to the Lugerforum __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-27-2008, 05:23 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Upload feature for photos is on the top right of every page... photos can only be 200k in size or smaller... once you successfully upload the photo then copy the URL for the photo location and use the IMG button to put it in your post... If you still need help. ask again. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-28-2008, 04:25 AM	#6
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	Your Luger is not 'undated' or perticular unusual. The bakelite grips are also quite common, but they can change hands for some insane prices these days. If you take some close up pictures, especially around the holes on the inside, it might be possible to say if they are original or not. ..or you can do a search in the forum on how to check it yourself. You are however looking at one of the best Lugers made! And for me it looks like a honest good excample, a collector grade Luger. I would buy it __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

03-28-2008, 09:51 AM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	The ejector color will not necessarily be "blue" because it is very hard to keep it from being deformed during the pounding of ejection. You seem to have an honest 42. Please do yourself a favor and remove the grips and get yourself some reproduction shooting grips. These 60 year old bakelite grips are very prone to breakage. I have seen them trade for between $200 and $300 dollars recently... they are too fragile to keep on the gun. and too valuable to shoot with. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-26-2008, 07:07 PM	#2
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Welcome to the forum! Chamber date and toggle stamp are not independent. Two stamps are related -- If you see "42" on chamber, you are supposed to see "byf" on top of toggle. If that's true, it's a 1942 byf (Mauser). Black grips are common on 42 byf. It's so common that people has assigned a name to it "Black Widow". I heard there are lots of fake grips. I am new on this, but experts on this forum could help you on grip details if you post detail pictures. You mentioned it's in good condition but has no bluing. Is it chrome-plated? or has lost its black-tone gun blue over the past 60+ years? Pictures should help.

03-27-2008, 04:59 PM	#4
likepistols New User Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I need help, I cannot find the button to add the pictures.

03-28-2008, 10:17 AM	#9
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	These late Lugers probably didn't make it into the hands of the troops untill 1943 or even later. This means they were probably in service for a much shorter time than most other Lugers, and thus are encountered in much better condition that most.