German Nitro Luger Valuation

[drevil8675]

I have done as much research as I can and have found as much info as I can on my Luger, and I was wondering if someone might be able to give me a ballpark figure as to what it may be worth? It is a German Nitro luger, commercial I believe. Usual barrel length and has the N with the crown on both the reciever and the barrel as well as GERMANY printed on the top. GESICHERT is also printed under the safety switch. The serial number is 205 and all of them match. I would rate the condition at the very least at 95% it is rust blued and has VERY little wear. The strawing is still quite evident on the trigger, magazine catch, safety, takedown lever, and a small strip on the right side of the reciever. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated as I have no clue how to appraise one of these or who to go to. If you need pictures or any other info let me know! Thanks!

[Edward Tinker]

pictures are needed to even guess, plus more information.

caliber?

Never heard of a nitro luger; I know what you mean, it is crown N proofed...

Value could be $500 or it could be $1100


Ed

[drevil8675]

Thanks for the quick replies! Here are the pictures requested. From looking around a bit more I think it is most likely a 7.65mm. It has Germany stamped on it and it was made (I think) in the 1920's. Anything else needed do not hesitate to ask and bear with, I am new at this.

[Edward Tinker]

Interesting, it is a "replacement" toggle that they stamped 'germany" on, I have not seen that often.

IMHO Condition suggests a $500-$600 gun if in 30 luger and $650-$700 if in 9mm.


Ed

[drevil8675]

Its definetly a 9mm, thanks for the tip on how to ID tac. The serials match on the frame and the barrrel Ser No. 205, I have field stripped and it seems those are the only two parts that have serials on them at all. It really has no markings at all aside from the crown N and the GERMANY stamp. Thanks for all the help!

Another question, would this be a shooter or should I keep it as a collectable?

-Doc

[drevil8675]

Ill go ahead and fiddle with the camera, Ill strip it down so that you can see the lack of marks and should have some new pictures shortly. The mag is in great condition, the spring is quite hard to depress so I may have to take this one to the range and see how it performs!

-Doc

[drevil8675]

Ok, found the macro on the camera! here are some closeups of major parts, note only the two serials as mentioned before are found
















The 5 at the end is a little hard to see, but it is a 5

Hope this helps! Need any other pictures just let me know.

-Doc

[Ron Wood]

A Commercial "Sneak"/"lunchbox" Commercial??? Cool gun!

[Aaron]

I think this gun has more value than just as a shooter. While the toggle is a replacement, it is a factory replacement, making this an original commercial pistol of what may be considered a heretofore unreported variation. Also, the 9mm caliber enhances its value. I would say this Luger is worth at least $800. And Tac, why would you hope to see a matching mag on a commercial Luger which properly was furnished with an un-numbered magazine?

[Ron Wood]

Not to worry tac, you are in large company! As one of my favorite cartoon characters, "Hagar", says; "Ignorance is the mother of adventure". I have subscribed to that philosophy for years, and have enjoyed much of the adventure.

[drevil8675]

Well I'm glad I posted more pics, I wasn't sure if I should put a few rounds through it or not. So it definitely is a collector then?

Thanks for the help all

-Doc

[Ron Wood]

Doc,
Your Luger doesn't fit into any particular category. It is unusual, but you will get mixed reviews on whether it is a collectable or not. In all probability it is a "lunchbox special" assembled by a factory worker from various, mostly un-nmbered, parts. Kind of like Johnny Cash's song about building a Cadillac one piece at a time. Somehow it made its way into "official" channels and was reworked for commercial sales. The barrel is numbered to the frame but it is a replacement (note that it does not have a witness mark).

A "variation" is usually considered to be a piece that is the result of authorized production. It may consist of only a few pieces to many thousands, but it has unique features that set it apart from other production "variations". I suspect your Luger is a "one-of-one" produced by who knows? I think you could put a few rounds through it for the fun of it and won't be risking a national treasure.

Good luck and thanks for the photos. To repeat myself, it is a cool gun.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Ron...The barrel is numbered to the frame but it is a replacement (note that it does not have a witness mark).

I have never heard this before...That just because a barrel does not have a witness mark it is a replacement?

Perhaps you could enlighten this poor student and explain further?

I have a 1937 Krieghoff that has no witness mark and I know it is not a replacement barrel.

Took another look at the photo's...Seems it has a half of a witness mark. BUT, this brings up an interesting question. The witness marks were meant to line up..one was placed on the frame and one on the barrel.

It is obvious that a barrel could be installed without the help of a witness mark. In this pistols case it could be the original barrel, just no witness mark?


Thanks!

Jerry Burney

[Ron Wood]

Jerry,
It is quite possible that it is an original barrel since a witness mark is not essential for barrel alignment. This would entail a long-winded discussion on the role of witness marks and the evolution of their use from earliest production to the late Mauser and Krieghoff builds.

In the case of this gun, it is of 1920s manufacture/assembly as evidenced by the vertical Crown/N. The low serial number doesn't fit in with anything produced after 1900, except for a few special contract runs...and this isn't one of them. So the gun has either been made up from a blank frame or renumbered. I believe the 1920 era guns still retained the witness mark, so this one should have one. It does appear that there might be "half a witness mark" but I lightened up the photo to check and there isn't one...it is just a photographic artifact. If it is a lunchbox gun as I surmise, it could well have been assembled without a witness mark.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Ron, Thank you! I know this is a complex discussion of a minute detail..But

"It does appear that there might be "half a witness mark" but I lightened up the photo to check and there isn't one...it is just a photographic artifact."

There is clearly an indentation on the reciever...Half a witness mark. Nothing on the barrel I agree.

Thanks for the lesson..I am but a grasshopper!

]Jerry Burney

[Dwight Gruber]

Jerry,

Several pertinent observations were made in the course of the witness mark study of a few years ago.

Witness marks are a post-assembly application.

Original replacemant barrels were reported without witness marks.

At that time I owned 29DWM sn 7428u, a Police Luger marked H.P.495., whose barrel proof and serial number appeared authentic, but without the barrel-side of the witness mark.

Most Krieghoffs are found without witness marks at all (barrel or receiver), indicating that these marks are indeed not required for assembly and Krieghoff simply did not bother with them.

--Dwight

[Edward Tinker]

There were a lot of lugers made up, scrubbed up and fixed up by small firms in the 1920's and early 1930's looking for cash from out of country. I think this was a put-together by one of those firms and the toggle was either a DWM / Erfurt that has been scrubbed of more likely a blank that was convienently stamped with Germany on the top, since there was a blank spot to do so and sent to America for american sales.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Dwight, Ed, Thank you both. I continue to learn despite my best efforts!

Jerry Burney

[Ron Wood]

Ah...excuse me Jerry, I misunderstood your "half a witness mark" comment...sorry. I was referring to the apparent mark on the barrel that looked like it might be a partially struck mark but it was just a digital aberration. I sometimes read a meaning that isn't there...don't think it is a senior thing, just dumb.

[Ron Wood]

Witness marks are a post-assembly application.

For early Luger production, this is a point where Dwight and I disagree. I have been beaten about the head and shoulders concerning my views on this matter (Not by Dwight!) so I choose not to debate the point and let sleeping dogs lie. Other than that, I subscribe to Dwight's analysis without reservation.