Nice looking artillery rig on AA <img BORDER="0" src='http://boards.rennlist.com/luger/pic.gif'>

John Sabato · 11-12-2001, 03:10 PM

I can't vouch for it's authenticity but this is a nice looking Artillery Model rig for auction at Auction Arms... click on the link below to see the auction page

These are some of the best Photos I have ever seen of an Artillery rig...

regards,

John Sabato

Click here to go to the auction page
http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/AAartyrig.jpg

Big Norm · 11-12-2001, 11:29 PM

At $2100 and 3+ days remaining, I am sure that the price will go up. But lets look at what is selling first.

All the straps (shoulder, holster flap and holding iron cup) are in poor shape. The shoulder straps are VERY suspicious to me.

The cleaning rod is pretty long so it may be an original rod. Its impossible to tell an original from a repro. Take down tools are very common ($20 or so).

The holster may not look so bad except for the strap.

The pictures of the gun are not the best. A 1917 is a pretty common year. But the gun looks like it has honest wear on it. Non adjustible front sight (adjustible front sight is a turnon for me). The grips look good from what I can see (no chip at the safety). Wear on the grips are hard to determine. Would like some pictures of the gun and the magazines of the serial numbers, proofs and so forth. The guy did not do a very good job of describing the gun. An estimate of the bluing, bore, pitting, rust etc would have been helpful.

Stock may be honest, but I would like to see the numbers on the iron and the proof mark on the wood. None of that crap about it being a commercial and no proof mark.

But, as I mentioned earlier, there is still time and I am sure that the price will go up.

Big Norm

John Sabato · 11-13-2001, 10:53 AM

Since I can't collect every Luger I want because of fiscal limitations (sigh)... I collect all the photos I can find of Lugers and these were pretty good as auction photos go...

regards,

John

BILL · 11-14-2001, 12:41 AM

John, I appreciate the seeing the pictures. It also gives anyone who might be interested in an artillery an idea of what they might be looking at as far as price. Norm does point out some things for the potential buyer to question.

11-14-2001, 08:16 PM

I cant seeem to get away from Lugers in the fall/winter...I know thats weird, but in summer around here I just go boating. So after about nine months Im back online and intrigued by the questions on this artillery model. At a show recently a dealer said he would bring a 8' barrell Luger to the next show for me to see/sell. He didnt remember the maker or anything else -said he only had one Luger, but would sell it for --maybe $2,5000.

Im not all that familiar with the artillery model...so here's the rub. What 8" barrell Luger should be in that price range??

What should I look for etc. etc.???

Anyhelp by next weekend is appreciated>

Patrick H in Maryland

11-14-2001, 08:28 PM

SORRY that was kind of a dumb too simple question, which I would like to refine and qualify: Beside condition (which I can probably gauge)is there something "special" to the artillery model that I should look for, i.e , proper manufacture/year, long barrel on wrong frame, proper sight etc.

Thanks loads

11-14-2001, 08:43 PM

Of course, besides the reasonably obvious of matching numbers, condition, there are certain groups of things that go with a true artillery. I can get the book out and look if someone doesn't answer this for you by the weekend.

It would depend on if you are interested in certain years, etc. There are commercial long barrel, otherwise I believe that most Artilleries were produced during WW1, so they should be marked as such.

Ed

11-14-2001, 09:04 PM

Thanks Ed--what book/s would be best for my introduction to the artillery model??

John Sabato · 11-15-2001, 12:08 AM

This forum, but I don't think that it will help you before this weekend. The only books that I know you can get that fast are the e-books on the Luger by G. Henrotin. I don't have much time at the moment but if you do a search from the main message page link (top of the page) for e-book you will find the right link to download them. The one you need most would be the Luger Models book (there are four of them altogether) and they are only $5.95 each.

I don't know what would make an artillery model worth $25,000 but if it truely is worth that much I sure would like to see it.

I suggest you download all the information from our Technical Information link and take it with you and better yet, report all the info requested on the Identification sheets here to the forum and we will probably be able to tell you if what this dealer is telling you is just dealer hype or not. Just get his contact information and tell him you will get back to him in a couple of days. Take a digital camera with you to the show and post photos here too would be a good idea.

Good Luck this weekend, - John Sabato

11-15-2001, 02:37 AM

John, I assumed he had meant $2,500 and added a 0 accidently, but of course, I can't imagine buying a gun that cost as much as my Jeep was new.

Anyway, I have several Luger books, in Jones, it has the 1914 DWM Arty, toggle DWM, dated from 1914 - 1918, gesichert on safety, geladen on extrator, frame serial #, severa thousand made, resaonably common, checkered walnut grips.

1914 Erfurt Arty, (that is what mine is, but mine has been reblued, has pitting, etc). Toggle, erfurt, dated same, safety same, extrator same, unknown number made but common, same on grips.

two date: 1920 or 21 above any date from 1910 - 1918, DWM or Erfurt. same as above for geladen, grips, etc.

1920 commercial, dwm or erfurt. many variations as these are reworks, this is where you will see fakes (I imagine).

Book says tat the 1923 Krieghoff commercial is possible but few made, he lists one. So...

My Datig book lists approx., the same info.

Kenyon's book says approx., the same thing, lists the 1914 Erfurt as having the above and with 9 position, adjustable rear sight. Proof marks on right side of receiver, barrel, left side of breechblock, inspectors proofs on all parts (usually). Military serial number of 1 to 5 digits, with or without a letter.

DWM in kenyon says the same.

It depends on if you want a shooter or a collectable on whether $2,500 is a lot. A shooter can be made up for a heck of a lot less, see Tom, Hugh, etc., and they can get you a nice shooter with a 6 or 8 inch barrel for less than $650.00 or so.

Ed

Marvin · 11-15-2001, 08:16 AM

Patrick,

I may not be much help, but $2,500 for the pistol alone seems on the high side unless it is a more rare pistol. Most of the Artillery Models are the 1916, 1917, and 1918 dates. These unually run in the range of $1200 up to $1800 for the pistol. This should be one in 90% and up to approx. 97% for the price range.

One suggestion is to go to Simpsons Ltd. website and look at the price/condition of the ones he has for sale. This may help you make a better detemination as to what they are selling for with a certain date, sights, etc. I have seen full Artillery rigs for sale in the $2,500-3000 price range.

Good Luck and keep us posted on the pistol.

Marvin

11-15-2001, 02:08 PM

Thanks all...I appreciate it. And yes I meant $2,500(NOT $25,000, nearly the price of my first house

)

I feel the $2,500 is too high also-but will surely look at it Saturday.

FYI...I have noticed that Luger prices here on the East Coast, New York to Maryland/Virgina seem to be substantially higher than out west (based on the prices some of you mention and I see on-line)

Most shooters go for $5-600.00 and almost any matching Luger of any factory/date in even 70% or less condition sells over $1,000.I've even seen VOPOs go for $500 around here at shows.

So I suspect this dealer (local guy)is asking the expected...what he has will ofcourse determine my interest and ultimate price.

11-12-2001, 03:10 PM	#1
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Nice looking artillery rig on AA I can't vouch for it's authenticity but this is a nice looking Artillery Model rig for auction at Auction Arms... click on the link below to see the auction page These are some of the best Photos I have ever seen of an Artillery rig... regards, John Sabato Click here to go to the auction page http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/AAartyrig.jpg

11-12-2001, 11:29 PM	#2
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Nice looking artillery rig on AA At $2100 and 3+ days remaining, I am sure that the price will go up. But lets look at what is selling first. All the straps (shoulder, holster flap and holding iron cup) are in poor shape. The shoulder straps are VERY suspicious to me. The cleaning rod is pretty long so it may be an original rod. Its impossible to tell an original from a repro. Take down tools are very common ($20 or so). The holster may not look so bad except for the strap. The pictures of the gun are not the best. A 1917 is a pretty common year. But the gun looks like it has honest wear on it. Non adjustible front sight (adjustible front sight is a turnon for me). The grips look good from what I can see (no chip at the safety). Wear on the grips are hard to determine. Would like some pictures of the gun and the magazines of the serial numbers, proofs and so forth. The guy did not do a very good job of describing the gun. An estimate of the bluing, bore, pitting, rust etc would have been helpful. Stock may be honest, but I would like to see the numbers on the iron and the proof mark on the wood. None of that crap about it being a commercial and no proof mark. But, as I mentioned earlier, there is still time and I am sure that the price will go up. Big Norm

11-13-2001, 10:53 AM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	All vaild points Big Norm, But I was just commenting on the photos... Since I can't collect every Luger I want because of fiscal limitations (sigh)... I collect all the photos I can find of Lugers and these were pretty good as auction photos go... regards, John

11-14-2001, 12:41 AM	#4
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: All vaild points Big Norm, But I was just commenting on the photos John, I appreciate the seeing the pictures. It also gives anyone who might be interested in an artillery an idea of what they might be looking at as far as price. Norm does point out some things for the potential buyer to question.

11-14-2001, 08:16 PM	#5
Patrick H Guest Posts: n/a	Re: All vaild points Big Norm, But I was just commenting on the photos I cant seeem to get away from Lugers in the fall/winter...I know thats weird, but in summer around here I just go boating. So after about nine months Im back online and intrigued by the questions on this artillery model. At a show recently a dealer said he would bring a 8' barrell Luger to the next show for me to see/sell. He didnt remember the maker or anything else -said he only had one Luger, but would sell it for --maybe $2,5000. Im not all that familiar with the artillery model...so here's the rub. What 8" barrell Luger should be in that price range?? What should I look for etc. etc.??? Anyhelp by next weekend is appreciated> Patrick H in Maryland

11-14-2001, 08:28 PM	#6
Patrick H Guest Posts: n/a	Re: All vaild points Big Norm, But I was just commenting on the photos SORRY that was kind of a dumb too simple question, which I would like to refine and qualify: Beside condition (which I can probably gauge)is there something "special" to the artillery model that I should look for, i.e , proper manufacture/year, long barrel on wrong frame, proper sight etc. Thanks loads

11-14-2001, 08:43 PM	#7
66mustang Guest Posts: n/a	artillery info come this weekend Of course, besides the reasonably obvious of matching numbers, condition, there are certain groups of things that go with a true artillery. I can get the book out and look if someone doesn't answer this for you by the weekend. It would depend on if you are interested in certain years, etc. There are commercial long barrel, otherwise I believe that most Artilleries were produced during WW1, so they should be marked as such. Ed

11-14-2001, 09:04 PM	#8
Patrick H Guest Posts: n/a	Re: artillery info come this weekend Thanks Ed--what book/s would be best for my introduction to the artillery model??

11-15-2001, 12:08 AM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	I know that there is one being written as we type here by a member of This forum, but I don't think that it will help you before this weekend. The only books that I know you can get that fast are the e-books on the Luger by G. Henrotin. I don't have much time at the moment but if you do a search from the main message page link (top of the page) for e-book you will find the right link to download them. The one you need most would be the Luger Models book (there are four of them altogether) and they are only $5.95 each. I don't know what would make an artillery model worth $25,000 but if it truely is worth that much I sure would like to see it. I suggest you download all the information from our Technical Information link and take it with you and better yet, report all the info requested on the Identification sheets here to the forum and we will probably be able to tell you if what this dealer is telling you is just dealer hype or not. Just get his contact information and tell him you will get back to him in a couple of days. Take a digital camera with you to the show and post photos here too would be a good idea. Good Luck this weekend, - John Sabato

11-15-2001, 02:37 AM	#10
66mustang Guest Posts: n/a	Re: I know that there is one being written as we type here by a member John, I assumed he had meant $2,500 and added a 0 accidently, but of course, I can't imagine buying a gun that cost as much as my Jeep was new. Anyway, I have several Luger books, in Jones, it has the 1914 DWM Arty, toggle DWM, dated from 1914 - 1918, gesichert on safety, geladen on extrator, frame serial #, severa thousand made, resaonably common, checkered walnut grips. 1914 Erfurt Arty, (that is what mine is, but mine has been reblued, has pitting, etc). Toggle, erfurt, dated same, safety same, extrator same, unknown number made but common, same on grips. two date: 1920 or 21 above any date from 1910 - 1918, DWM or Erfurt. same as above for geladen, grips, etc. 1920 commercial, dwm or erfurt. many variations as these are reworks, this is where you will see fakes (I imagine). Book says tat the 1923 Krieghoff commercial is possible but few made, he lists one. So... My Datig book lists approx., the same info. Kenyon's book says approx., the same thing, lists the 1914 Erfurt as having the above and with 9 position, adjustable rear sight. Proof marks on right side of receiver, barrel, left side of breechblock, inspectors proofs on all parts (usually). Military serial number of 1 to 5 digits, with or without a letter. DWM in kenyon says the same. It depends on if you want a shooter or a collectable on whether $2,500 is a lot. A shooter can be made up for a heck of a lot less, see Tom, Hugh, etc., and they can get you a nice shooter with a 6 or 8 inch barrel for less than $650.00 or so. Ed

11-15-2001, 08:16 AM	#11
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: All vaild points Big Norm, But I was just commenting on the photos Patrick, I may not be much help, but $2,500 for the pistol alone seems on the high side unless it is a more rare pistol. Most of the Artillery Models are the 1916, 1917, and 1918 dates. These unually run in the range of $1200 up to $1800 for the pistol. This should be one in 90% and up to approx. 97% for the price range. One suggestion is to go to Simpsons Ltd. website and look at the price/condition of the ones he has for sale. This may help you make a better detemination as to what they are selling for with a certain date, sights, etc. I have seen full Artillery rigs for sale in the $2,500-3000 price range. Good Luck and keep us posted on the pistol. Marvin

11-15-2001, 02:08 PM	#12
Patrick H Guest Posts: n/a	Re: All vaild points Big Norm, But I was just commenting on the photos Thanks all...I appreciate it. And yes I meant $2,500(NOT $25,000, nearly the price of my first house) I feel the $2,500 is too high also-but will surely look at it Saturday. FYI...I have noticed that Luger prices here on the East Coast, New York to Maryland/Virgina seem to be substantially higher than out west (based on the prices some of you mention and I see on-line) Most shooters go for $5-600.00 and almost any matching Luger of any factory/date in even 70% or less condition sells over $1,000.I've even seen VOPOs go for $500 around here at shows. So I suspect this dealer (local guy)is asking the expected...what he has will ofcourse determine my interest and ultimate price.