7 mm (.30) magazines

[hdjoe]

I Have a P08 that appears to be a 7MM (.30) version. I can not get a 9MM round that fits my P-38 to chamber and the magizine appears to be a bit smaller.

I am looking for a source for repro 7mm magazines and can't seem to find one. Mostly what I find are the magazines for the 9MM. I checked the Mec-Gar web site that was mentioned in a previous post and can only find references to the 9MM. Can someone tell me where I might find 7 MMs at?

I really don't want to have to pay lots of money for originals just for something I am going to keep in my closet and take to the Range once or twice a year to shoot.

Also:

When we split up my late Father's gun collection, I got the P-38 and P-08 along with a number of other guns. My brother got the old military 45. It is family lore that dad got them through a program that the NRA had in the Late 50's or early 60's where the NRA was donating army surplus to clubs. I was wondering if anyone had heard of such a program?

Thanks

Joe

[Mike B]

Joe,
The 7.65 and 9mm use the same magazine (generally speaking). One magazine handles both size bullets. As far as your question about the NRA and surplus gun sales; I can remember the NRA offering the M1 carbine to the members back in the 60's, but I have no recollection of them ever offering a handgun.

Mike

[alanint]

The Department of Civilian Marksmanship did offer .45 1911 pistols back then for competition.
No US Gov. entity oferred captured weapons such as a P08 or P38, that I am aware of. These were mostly available through private purchase or large distributors such as Bannerman

[Edward Tinker]

some magazines are just picky, I have not had a problem in loading 7.65mm and 9mm, they have always fed. But if someone tightened the feed-lips, then they thought that would feed 30 luger easier; however, ANY magazine "should" work. But like I said, some go in harder or not at all in one gun, yet slide right into another....

Buy a Mecgar or two, they are good shooter mags, yet not too expensive (less than $30).

ed

[Vlim]

FYI:

This is what the 7.65 para / .30 luger round looks like.
You can see that the overall length and the size of the bullet base are equal to those of the 9mm para round, which is not surprising as the 9x19 para was developed out of the 7.65 para.

The versions shown are Swiss and date from 1949-1953. You may or may not see the crimp on other 7.65 para rounds. Many have spot crimps and many have none at all.

[Steinar]

Can the chain of development be something like this:
7.65x25mm Borchardt -> 7.63mm Mauser -> 7.65x22mm Parabellum -> 9x19mm Parabellum ?

Gerben, do you know the meaning of that crimp? I noticed old 7.63mm also have this, just applied a little differently.

[hdjoe]

I want to thank all who had replied. I didn't realized that we used the same clip for both sizes. I will order a couple new clips from Merc and that should do it for me. I never found a reference on the web sites, that specificly said that they were the same clip.

Thanks for the picture of the 7MM shells, as I had never see one. My older brother said when we were growig up on the family farm in Kansas, he used to slip out to Dad's "doghouse" and take it out and shoot up a box of shells that he would find on the shelf. Dad would always reload them so must of known what was going on.

When younger I remember my Dad spending a lot of evenings reloading stuff and on the weeknd off to the local club he would go. I spent a lot of time running back and forth fetching targets, especially on the 100 and 200 ranges. By the time my younger brother and I got older (8 Years) my dad kind of stopped his major reloading as his best shooting buddy died of cancer and the local shooting club had disbanded and he didn't do it as much. We still had our own range in our pasture and dad on the holidays would throw out a 5 or 10 dollar bill and see who could shoot the tightest grouping.

Once in a while he would drag something out and load up some shells and we would stand ourside of the doghouse and we shoot accross the pasture to test some new load he would work on. I remember talking to some people back in Kansas one time and they stated that they never worried about shooting anything my Dad had reloaded.

<alanint said> Department of Civilian Marksmanship did offer .45 1911 pistols back then for competition.

<Mike B said>I can remember the NRA offering the M1 carbine to the members back in the 60's

This is what I must be remembering being talked about my younger brother got the 1911 and my older got the M1.

Thanks

Joe - Former Farmboy from the flat lands of Kansas.

[Ron Wood]

Steinar,
The Borchardt cartridge was 7.63mm. The 7.63mm Mauser is dimensionally identical, just loaded hotter.

[John Sabato]

I know that the 1911A1 (and 1911's) were offered by the DCM for civilian sales back in the 60's... I didn't buy one then, but managed to buy one from someone who did... it is a beautiful Remington-Rand made in 1944 I doubt it has had even a magazine of ammo put though it since it was refurbished at Anniston Army Depot just before its release. For all of you hopefuls out there... I have put it in my will to be left to my oldest daughter when my time comes... it is not for sale, sorry. (...and she is already taken )

[lugerholsterrepair]

Mike B says..One magazine handles both size bullets. While this is true I think it might be more appropriate to say One magazine handles both size "cartridges".


Gerben says..You can see that the overall length and the size of the bullet base are equal to those of the 9mm para round....This is not true. The bullet base is considerably different. It is the base of the "cartridge" that is the same.

Joe says..I didn't realized that we used the same clip for both sizes. A clip is something different from a "magazine" I won't eloborate as it is almost common vernacular but there is a difference and among those who profess to be interested...

Have fun!

Jerry Burney


You fellows are speaking in terms that may not make your point effectively...

[Mike B]

Jerry,
I stand corrected, but buletts is easier to spell.

Mike

[lugerholsterrepair]

Mike says..but buletts is easier to spell.
HA HA!You might want to think that one over!

Jerry Burney

[Vlim]

Jerry, thanks for the English lesson

Of course I meant the cartridge base.

@Steinar: Yep, Mauser pretty much 'borrowed' the Borchardt design.

[hdjoe]

<Jerry Burney Says> ....A clip is something different from a "magazine" I won't eloborate as it is almost common vernacular but there is a difference and among those who profess to be interested...

Ok, I will bite and admit that I know nothing. What is the difference between a clip and a magazine?

Joe - A misplaced Kansan.

[Edward Tinker]

There was a discussion on this recently, but to many folks a clip is for a rifle (and some pistols), they "charge" a magazine or other items (Tac can say this much better than me); while a magazine is detachable and holds cartridges.



Ed

[lugerholsterrepair]

Joe, So many people interchange the two words...Ed is correct. A clip holds cartridges that are to be inserted into a non detachable magazine that is integral to the firearm. A C-96 uses a clip which attaches temporarily to the pistol, the cartridges are then thrust into the magazine and then the stripper clip is removed.

The M-1 Garand is another example. Cartridges are inserted into the rifle's non detachable magazine and the clip is spit out.

Come to think of it I guess there should be a nomenclature for a removeable magazine and an integral one? I don't know it if there is?

Like Ed says..Perhaps if TAC reads this he would know.

Jerry Burney

[hdjoe]

<lugerholsterrepair Says>..........A clip holds cartridges that are to be inserted into a non detachable magazine that is integral to the firearm........


This wording makes perfect sense. Which means that I actually get it wrong 90% of the time.

Thanks

Joe

[fg42]

The NRA Has had a long history of making ex military guns available to its members. A very incomplete list would include 30-40 Krags, 1903 Sprinfields, 1917 Endfields, 1911 A1 Colts, Smith & Wesson and Colt Made 1917 revolvers, Ect. The NRA is currently selling through the DCM M1 rifles and M1 carbines, and various 22 cal target rifles. Bob

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

There was a discussion on this recently, but to many folks a clip is for a rifle (and some pistols), they "charge" a magazine or other items (Tac can say this much better than me); while a magazine is detachable and holds cartridges.



Ed

Hi:

I thought we were all called down before for discussing this.

Sieger

[Steinar]

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

Steinar,
The Borchardt cartridge was 7.63mm. The 7.63mm Mauser is dimensionally identical, just loaded hotter.

I'm steping into an area I know very little about, but from a 'metric point of view' I still beleve it's a the Bochardt has the caliber 7.65x25mm instead of 7.63x25mm, the difference there would be so minor (0.02mm) that they would be virtually identical.
Just like the 7.62x25mm Tokarev is only 0.01mm away from the 7.63x25mm Mauser. Which would go bang in both guns.

So.. if I'm right, 7.62x25mm Tokarev is hotter than 7.63x25mm Mauser, wich again is hotter than the 7.65x25mm Borchardt. That makes me wonder.. if a 7.62x25mm Tokarev be chambered into a Borchardt?


The clip VS magazine discussion is a battle for the english speeking (not me), but in Norwegian we have "klips" and "magasin". Two different things, like a Dardick VS Luger