Early eagle ( Sad Sad Sad)

wayne8661 · 12-04-2008, 10:01 PM

I found this today, An Early eagle that has been neglected so bad. I think someone has fired the wrong ammo thru it for it has a bulge in the barrel, I need some direction as to what to do with this paperweight. The extractor pin is missing and the safety just flops around, about the only plus is that it is an american eagle and all the numbers do match, Any suggestions if it is salvageable

alvin · 12-04-2008, 10:14 PM

I heard from two sources (one from an article published by a foreign firearm expert in 1990s, another one happened recently in South America): people loaded 9x19 into 7,63x25 C96 and shot a few rounds OK, no visible damage to the gun. I assumed the guns were post war.... probably 1930. Maybe the steel was weaker in 1900 ?? Mauser, DWM were not steel maker, they might have same suppliers of raw material though.

Really need a shooter to try this non-conventional collector activity...... the 1990's article even concluded the gun was made of excellent quality steel based on this. But he also warned "don't repeat this many times".

God knows. Probably this 1900 was fired "many times" in wrong ammo.

wlyon · 12-05-2008, 01:17 AM

Wayne
I would suspect someone fired this with some type of barrel obstruction ( cleaning patch, mud etc.) I would clean it up as best you can and use it for a wall hanger. It is still an example of an AE luger. Bill

John Sabato · 12-05-2008, 11:31 AM

Bill's correct. I don't know of any "wrong ammo" that you could put in this pistol. It was fired with an obstruction for sure... 9x19 will not chamber in this gun. 7.65mm Luger ammo has a shoulder in the chamber that would never let a 9mm round enter far enough to close the toggle.

This gun is restorable, but not worth much in its current condition... maybe a couple of hundred even if it gets parted out BUT ... Stop the rust, a new barrel and a couple of replacement parts and a quick blue job and some homemade strawing it will make a good AE shooter class gun.

RichSr · 12-05-2008, 03:12 PM

I would be interested in hearing how a barrel made for a .308 projectile could handle a .355 bullet. How one could have "shot a few rounds OK, no visible damage to the gun" escapes me. I realize the C96 would chamber the shorter round, but where did the bullets go? Surely not driven through 4+ inches of undersized barrel.

cma22inc · 12-05-2008, 03:32 PM

Yeah you should box that up and send it to me right away for proper disposal

J/k Looks like a canidate for restoration.

alvin · 12-05-2008, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichSr

I would be interested in hearing how a barrel made for a .308 projectile could handle a .355 bullet. How one could have "shot a few rounds OK, no visible damage to the gun" escapes me. I realize the C96 would chamber the shorter round, but where did the bullets go? Surely not driven through 4+ inches of undersized barrel.

From the description, the bullets flied out of the 140m/m barrel. Actually, this is the type of shooting that I support -- figure out some myth from shooting. But that could cost too much for individual to perform and I could not afford the price.

9x19 fitting into chamber of 7,63 is no problem. It's not shorter from headspace point of view.

RichSr · 12-05-2008, 07:12 PM

Overall cartridge length of 9X19 allows it to fit in the chamber of the longer 7.63 Mauser due to the Mauser's bottlenecked case. Headspacing is completely different as the Mauser headspaces on the cartridges shoulder while the 9mm as with all straight sided or slightly tapered autoloading cartridges headspaces on the case mouth.
I would invite others to comment of the feasibility pushing a .355 bulet through 5 1/2 inches of .308 barrel. What chamber pressure would be needed to accomplish such a task?

wayne8661 · 12-05-2008, 09:04 PM

This actually came out of the same house that my 1902 fat barrel did . I was shocked when the woman called me and told me she found another luger on a shelf, I didnt believe her and behold she found another early AE how often does this happen?

alvin · 12-05-2008, 09:23 PM

Rich -- I just finished my dinner and drag out a piece and compared roughly. I believe you're right. Let's not hijack wayne's topic. I will put pix in a new topic in "Shooting Column".

Dwight Gruber · 12-05-2008, 11:44 PM

What is the serial number?

--Dwight

Lugerdoc · 12-06-2008, 12:26 PM

Wayne, PM sent. I'm interested in it for the decent parts I can salvage. I would consider it as partial trade for a matching 1938 shooter that I have listed in the For Sale section. Lugerdoc

wayne8661 · 12-06-2008, 05:13 PM

Dwight the serial number is 9119 the are no other proofmarks on the gun except for the flaming bomb iside the weapon.

wayne8661 · 12-06-2008, 05:13 PM

Luger doc, I think I will just hang on to it as it is. Maybe I will do something with it in the future.

Sieger · 06-29-2016, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

I heard from two sources (one from an article published by a foreign firearm expert in 1990s, another one happened recently in South America): people loaded 9x19 into 7,63x25 C96 and shot a few rounds OK, no visible damage to the gun. I assumed the guns were post war.... probably 1930. Maybe the steel was weaker in 1900 ?? Mauser, DWM were not steel maker, they might have same suppliers of raw material though.

Really need a shooter to try this non-conventional collector activity...... the 1990's article even concluded the gun was made of excellent quality steel based on this. But he also warned "don't repeat this many times".

God knows. Probably this 1900 was fired "many times" in wrong ammo.

Hi,

This doesn't seem possible, but I don't have a 7.63mm C96 to try fitting a loaded 9x19mm into its chamber.

Can one of you Mauser collectors verify this?

Sieger

John Sabato · 06-29-2016, 08:51 AM

Definitely do NOT try this at home kids unless your life insurance is paid up, your will is in order, and each piece of your gun collection has a price tag on it so your spouse doesn't have to research their value to dispose of them when you remove yourself from the gene pool. Squeezing a .356 diameter bullet down a .311 bore is not my idea of fun.

Vlim · 06-29-2016, 11:46 AM

I just shoved a 9mm drill round in a 7,63mm Mauser. Chambered without problems

KABAR2 · 09-21-2016, 05:46 PM

I have come across several pistols with bulged barrels it happens more that one would think I have a revolver in .455 Webley that appears to have had rust in one area of the barrel it ringed the barrel and there is a bulge you can feel..... I got lucky I purchased a .455 Colt barrel that had wrench marks on the out side from bubba's removal attempt.... bore was excellent .... I turned it down into a liner and when time permits I will bore out the barrel and re-line it.... This luger could be brought back to life.... I would say it may have had some sort of bore obstruction and or cartridge case failure as it may have blown out the extractor since this is missing...... Barrel could be sent out and be relined..... also the owner could see if he can come up with another barrel and extension so he could at least use it as a shooter in the meantime.... so not being that well versed with the earlier lugers ... will a P08 barrel extension inter-change with this?

KABAR2 · 09-21-2016, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sieger

Hi,

This doesn't seem possible, but I don't have a 7.63mm C96 to try fitting a loaded 9x19mm into its chamber.

Can one of you Mauser collectors verify this?

Sieger

Re-enactors have used 9mm crimped blanks in 30 Mauser's that have had the barrels "blanked" for semi-auto function..... So yes More than likely one could mistakenly put a 9mm in a 30 cal C96.... something the Germans must have been aware of hence the "RED 9" on their 9mm C96's....

DonVoigt · 09-21-2016, 07:41 PM

Surely Wayne has done something with the OP luger in the past EIGHT years!

This thread just won't die.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KABAR2

I have come across several pistols with bulged barrels it happens more that one would think I have a revolver in .455 Webley that appears to have had rust in one area of the barrel it ringed the barrel and there is a bulge you can feel..... I got lucky I purchased a .455 Colt barrel that had wrench marks on the out side from bubba's removal attempt.... bore was excellent .... I turned it down into a liner and when time permits I will bore out the barrel and re-line it.... This luger could be brought back to life.... I would say it may have had some sort of bore obstruction and or cartridge case failure as it may have blown out the extractor since this is missing...... Barrel could be sent out and be relined..... also the owner could see if he can come up with another barrel and extension so he could at least use it as a shooter in the meantime.... so not being that well versed with the earlier lugers ... will a P08 barrel extension inter-change with this?

12-04-2008, 10:01 PM	#1
wayne8661 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kennett Square Pennsylvania Posts: 591 Thanks: 15 Thanked 334 Times in 104 Posts	Early eagle ( Sad Sad Sad) I found this today, An Early eagle that has been neglected so bad. I think someone has fired the wrong ammo thru it for it has a bulge in the barrel, I need some direction as to what to do with this paperweight. The extractor pin is missing and the safety just flops around, about the only plus is that it is an american eagle and all the numbers do match, Any suggestions if it is salvageable Attached Thumbnails

12-04-2008, 10:14 PM	#2
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	I heard from two sources (one from an article published by a foreign firearm expert in 1990s, another one happened recently in South America): people loaded 9x19 into 7,63x25 C96 and shot a few rounds OK, no visible damage to the gun. I assumed the guns were post war.... probably 1930. Maybe the steel was weaker in 1900 ?? Mauser, DWM were not steel maker, they might have same suppliers of raw material though. Really need a shooter to try this non-conventional collector activity...... the 1990's article even concluded the gun was made of excellent quality steel based on this. But he also warned "don't repeat this many times". God knows. Probably this 1900 was fired "many times" in wrong ammo. Last edited by alvin; 12-04-2008 at 10:37 PM.

12-05-2008, 01:17 AM	#3
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,636 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,559 Times in 955 Posts	Wayne I would suspect someone fired this with some type of barrel obstruction ( cleaning patch, mud etc.) I would clean it up as best you can and use it for a wall hanger. It is still an example of an AE luger. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

12-05-2008, 11:31 AM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Bill's correct. I don't know of any "wrong ammo" that you could put in this pistol. It was fired with an obstruction for sure... 9x19 will not chamber in this gun. 7.65mm Luger ammo has a shoulder in the chamber that would never let a 9mm round enter far enough to close the toggle. This gun is restorable, but not worth much in its current condition... maybe a couple of hundred even if it gets parted out BUT ... Stop the rust, a new barrel and a couple of replacement parts and a quick blue job and some homemade strawing it will make a good AE shooter class gun. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-05-2008, 03:12 PM	#5
RichSr User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: West Texas Posts: 128 Thanks: 153 Thanked 54 Times in 36 Posts	I would be interested in hearing how a barrel made for a .308 projectile could handle a .355 bullet. How one could have "shot a few rounds OK, no visible damage to the gun" escapes me. I realize the C96 would chamber the shorter round, but where did the bullets go? Surely not driven through 4+ inches of undersized barrel. __________________ Rich

12-05-2008, 03:32 PM	#6
cma22inc User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Tampa Bay FL Posts: 93 Thanks: 1 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Yeah you should box that up and send it to me right away for proper disposal J/k Looks like a canidate for restoration.

12-05-2008, 07:12 PM	#8
RichSr User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: West Texas Posts: 128 Thanks: 153 Thanked 54 Times in 36 Posts	Overall cartridge length of 9X19 allows it to fit in the chamber of the longer 7.63 Mauser due to the Mauser's bottlenecked case. Headspacing is completely different as the Mauser headspaces on the cartridges shoulder while the 9mm as with all straight sided or slightly tapered autoloading cartridges headspaces on the case mouth. I would invite others to comment of the feasibility pushing a .355 bulet through 5 1/2 inches of .308 barrel. What chamber pressure would be needed to accomplish such a task? __________________ Rich

12-05-2008, 09:04 PM	#9
wayne8661 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kennett Square Pennsylvania Posts: 591 Thanks: 15 Thanked 334 Times in 104 Posts	This actually came out of the same house that my 1902 fat barrel did . I was shocked when the woman called me and told me she found another luger on a shelf, I didnt believe her and behold she found another early AE how often does this happen?

12-05-2008, 09:23 PM	#10
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Rich -- I just finished my dinner and drag out a piece and compared roughly. I believe you're right. Let's not hijack wayne's topic. I will put pix in a new topic in "Shooting Column".

12-05-2008, 11:44 PM	#11
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	What is the serial number? --Dwight

12-06-2008, 12:26 PM	#12
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Wayne, PM sent. I'm interested in it for the decent parts I can salvage. I would consider it as partial trade for a matching 1938 shooter that I have listed in the For Sale section. Lugerdoc __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected]

12-06-2008, 05:13 PM	#13
wayne8661 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kennett Square Pennsylvania Posts: 591 Thanks: 15 Thanked 334 Times in 104 Posts	Dwight the serial number is 9119 the are no other proofmarks on the gun except for the flaming bomb iside the weapon.

06-29-2016, 08:51 AM	#16
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Definitely do NOT try this at home kids unless your life insurance is paid up, your will is in order, and each piece of your gun collection has a price tag on it so your spouse doesn't have to research their value to dispose of them when you remove yourself from the gene pool. Squeezing a .356 diameter bullet down a .311 bore is not my idea of fun. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-29-2016, 11:46 AM	#17
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	I just shoved a 9mm drill round in a 7,63mm Mauser. Chambered without problems

09-21-2016, 05:46 PM	#18
KABAR2 User Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Virginia Posts: 32 Thanks: 2 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	I have come across several pistols with bulged barrels it happens more that one would think I have a revolver in .455 Webley that appears to have had rust in one area of the barrel it ringed the barrel and there is a bulge you can feel..... I got lucky I purchased a .455 Colt barrel that had wrench marks on the out side from bubba's removal attempt.... bore was excellent .... I turned it down into a liner and when time permits I will bore out the barrel and re-line it.... This luger could be brought back to life.... I would say it may have had some sort of bore obstruction and or cartridge case failure as it may have blown out the extractor since this is missing...... Barrel could be sent out and be relined..... also the owner could see if he can come up with another barrel and extension so he could at least use it as a shooter in the meantime.... so not being that well versed with the earlier lugers ... will a P08 barrel extension inter-change with this?