Mystery Luger

[boquetesteve]

Good Morning. I'm a real newbie to Lugers so be gentle. I have been scouring the internet trying to learn as much as I can about my Dad's Luger and the more information I find, the more comfortable I am about this pistol.

A little history: This pistol is one of eleven that my Dad left Marseilles, France with on the troop ship. Unfortunately, he wasn't a very good poker player and lost all but this one. He died very young (63) and we never really discussed this Luger in enough detail for me to know what I have. I do know that this one had some particular significance because he slept with it on the troop ship. Wouldn't let it out of his sight. His initials (RC) are scratched into the back of the holster.

The dude, as we all called him, was in the 101st Airborne (the whole Band of Brothers thing), and jumped into Normandy on D-Day, did Bastogne, a combat jump into Holland and also Hitlers headquarters in Berchtisgatten (SP?). From Hitler's Headquarters (the Eagles Nest) I have framed in my office a piece of Hitler's personal stationary superimposed by a newspaper article about my Dad's Bronze Star, Croix de Guerre, etc. He now rests peacefully in Arlington National Cemetery. Because of his being in the Eagle's Nest, I have often wondered if there is something special about his Luger.

Here's the deal...There is no serial number anywhere. It has the 8,83 stamped under the barrel, it has the witness marks where they should be, it is a DWM and it is stamped 1910. It has a 48 stamped just aft of the rear sight, the 48 is stamped inside both grips and inside the breech. There are no numbers anywhere else such as the side plate, etc. I have two magazines. One is stamped with some kind of symbol and the number 655 and is in very good condition. It has an alloy base plug. The other has the number 2824 and the script "a" stamped on the wood base plug. The holster is in what I would consider fair to good condition given its age. Between the belt loops it is stamped (faintly) DLU 1941. It is also stamped in large letters P.08. The tool is there and in good condition.

I know for a fact that this pistol has never been torn down or had parts replaced since the War. Plus, the Dude died (in 1981) way before the internet which has made the flow of information and parts readily available. This pistol stayed put away and untouched until he gave it to me after I came home from the service back in '69. I have never done anything more than look at it once in a while. It appears to be in pretty good condition for its age and the fact that we haven't done anything to it including not cleaning it. Now I want to try to learn as much about it as I can.

I'm curious about why this one was so special to the Dude. Was it from Hitler's headquarters? Or was it just that it was the last one and he dared not bet it on a poker hand? I'll probably never know. Why no serial numbers? BTW, the left side grip is intact...no million dollar chip.

Anybody have any thoughts as to what I might have? The value is not important as this baby won't leave the family and will probably not be fired in the future.

Should I post some pictures?

I would appreciate any thoughts you all might have.

Best Regards,
Steve Clarke

[Mauser720]

Steve -

Yes, please post some pictures as these will be helpful.

Mauser720 - Ron

[Lugerdoc]

Steve, It's probable that the small parts were serialize in the commerical fashion: last 2 digits of serial (full serial should be on front of frame) on the bottom edge of side plate and take down lever, and marked internally on center toggle link. The hold open, safety bar & lever are not usually serialize in the DWM commerial style. Lugerdoc

[Edward Tinker]

Steve, welcome to the forum.


We'd love to see pictures from many differnent angles.


Ed

[boquetesteve]

I tried taking some pictures this morning but my camera isn't good enough to get clear close up shots. I'll try tomorrow with my son's camera.

Regards,

Steve Clarke

[boquetesteve]

OK guys. Here's the promised photos of The Dude's Luger. Just for grins, I've also attached a shot of his registration card in San Leandro, Ca. right after the war where he registered this pistol and had only the "1910" and the 883 as numbers with which to do this. No Serial numbers. Any idea when this pistol might have been made?

Regards,

Steve Clarke

[boquetesteve]

The system only allows for 10 files so here's the rest.

hasta Lumbago,

Steve Clarke

[lugerholsterrepair]

Steve, Nice pistol! All 1910 pistols were made by DWM. Karlsruhe (Baden)

Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken Aktien-Gesellschaft (German Weapons and Munitions Works), known as DWM, was an arms company in Imperial Germany created in 1896 when Ludwig Loewe & Company decided to unite it's weapons and ammunition production facilities within one company. In 1896 Loewe founded Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken with a munitions plant in Karlsruhe (Baden), formerly Deutsche Metallpatronenfabrik Lorenz, and the weapons plant in Berlin. Shares that Loewe had in other gun- and ammunition plants were transferred to DWM. This included Waffenfabrik Mauser, Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre (FN) in Belgium and Waffen- und Munitionsfabrik A.G. in Budapest. The DWM was orchestrated by Isidor Loewe (1848–1910), as his brother Ludwig had died in 1886.

This is from Wikipedia.

Jerry Burney

[Ingvarg]

Hi

This fine Luger is a 1910 made P09. If you look close at the last pic. you can se a small proof stamp just above and to the rear of the trigger. This means the pistol was brougt back to DWM in 1913to have the "hold open" added.
Strange about the ser.# It is supposed to be located on the front of the frame just under the barrel, but should end on "49" as you can se on the other parts wich are numbered to the gun by the last two digits in the serial number.

Hope this helps

[Ingvarg]

Btw. The magasine with the wood buttom is the correct one for this pistol.

[LugerVern]

It is estimated that 17,000 1910's were made. Reported ranges of samples reported are from 5095b to 5358d ( this data may be slightly out of date but it is close)
Your SN range should fall between these numbers, each block being 10,000 guns.

Your gun does appear to have had some numbers removed from the frame just under the barrel, you can provide a picture of this area if you like?

The number just in front of your receiver lug look like a â??5â?� and this is a third number of your true serial number â??548â?� there may be another number before the five for example â???548â?� .You guns serial number had what we call a suffix just below it either a â??b. c, or dâ?� Here is a picture of a 1910 Luger SN 648 and how the lug picture looks for that gun.

What I found very interesting doing this research on your gun is that I found 3 other examples of 1910â??s that did not have SNâ??s on the barrels. I didnâ??t realize how interesting a study 1910â??s were.

Thanks for posting

Vern

[Ingvarg]

Here is a pic. of my 1909 P08 to show as an example, where and how the serial number on the frame are supposed to be locaded and look.

[Vlim]

And in this case, Wikipedia is quite correct.

(ok, I wrote that ... )

[boquetesteve]

Buenas morning, Y'all. Ive got two quick questions: (1) What is meant by "straw" or "strawing"? and (2) what is the "hold open"? I'm not familiar with either of these terms.

Regards,

Steve Clarke

[Vlim]

Straw = Golden/yellow color, the result of heat treating.
Holdopen = L-shaped lever on a small spring that keeps the toggle open after the last shot. It is pushed upward by the magazine button.

[John Sabato]

Please provide close up photographs similar to the one in post #12 showing the front of the frame above the trigger guard, and also the bottom edge of the sideplate, and the left side of the receiver ring...


BTW, Execellent photography...

[Ingvarg]

Without hold open: The toggle stays closed after last round.
With hold open: The toggle stays open after last round.

At first the German army did order the pistols without the hold open but from 1913 they changed the order and the hold open also was added to most of the pistols that had been made from1908.
The "strawed" parts on the first contract P08 are the trigger, safety lever, take down lever, magasine release and the ejector. (I think i dont forget anything.)

[boquetesteve]

OK, Gang. Per John Sabato's request, here's a couple more shots for the books. Unfortunately, though, I'm such a newbie that I don't know what the "receiver ring" is. Maybe there's another term? Please let me know and I'll get off another shot.

Thanks for you patience.

Regards,

Steve Clarke

[John Sabato]

The receiver ring is the forward part of the upper receiver into which the barrel is threaded. The photo I wish to see is the foward left side of the upper receiver where the serial number is usually stamped on this part.

The last photo in Post #7 shows the right side of the pistol... please show the left side in the same clarity and position.

I think this is a very early 1910 commercial model pistol... that is why the lack of visible serial numbers... a very interesting specimen... at least to me.

[boquetesteve]

OK, John. Let's see if this does el tricko (that's Spanish for the trick). Please let me know if we need any more. It's no big deal to take pictures and post them.

Thanks,

Steve Clarke