Trying to find info on new luger purchase

[dtu2179]

Hello everyone, I am new to this site, but have always had an interest in the Luger pistols. I was just at the York, PA gun show this past weekend and purchased a DWM P08 Luger from Gene A Huber from www.firearmsbroker.com. Mr. Huber stated that the gun is all matching numbers (it appears to be) and was made in between 1940-42. It apparently came from an estate sale several months ago. I paid $895.00 for the gun. The serial number is 3572A. Finish and bore look pretty good. Grips are worn. No Nazi markings. I don't have any pictures yet, because I have not recieved the gun yet. I tried to look up the SN on this site, but could not find it. The web has also offered no pertinent info. Can anyone help me find out some info on this gun, most inportantly the manufacture date?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Duane

[Frank]

Duane, take some photos of your Luger, when you get it and post them here. Make sure you include both sides, the top and the serial number on the front of the frame. Then we will be able to answer your questions.

[chris69]

hello Duane.I am not good with Lugers but I know for sure if it is DWM it can not be made in 1940 or 42.If it was it would be nazi stamped and either Mauser made or Krieghoff but you have stated toggle is DWM .So ...there is something wrong with the description or with the gun.You will get more respond with the pics(always)Ihope this helps a little.Regards Kris

[dtu2179]

I'm hoping to have it by next week and I will post some pictures of it. When I inspected it, it had the DWM on the top of the frame and all of the serial numbers that I could see appeared to match. Knowing very little about Lugers, other than I wanted one, I asked the seller when it was made. He repyed 1940 through 1942, however, I never asked him how he came up with that date range. It didn't look bad and I was really just looking for a shooter, but I figured if I found a nice collectable specimen that would be great.

[dtu2179]

Well I finally got the Luger. Here are some pictures. The local gun store seems to think it is a "1920s commercial gun." I'm sure its not a very valuble specimen, but all I was really looking for is a shooter. I would just like to know some more about it. The caliber is 9mm. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

Duane

[Edward Tinker]

Its mismatched (rear toggle is the wrong #), and the safety numbers look wrong.

Will the gun clean up better, i.e. the bluing splotches, is it rougher or just oil or is it splotches?


I don't know Gene, will he reimburse your money to you?

I would expect that a gun in this condition, mismatched would sell for between $700- $800 maximum at the PA shows.

Ed

[dtu2179]

I just cleaned it. So some of it might be oil, but most is splotchy. I actually paid $895. I don't want my money back, its a shooter, which is what I wanted. However, for those of you who run into this dealer, beware of what he tells you. Just interested in what I can find out about it. My goal is to start a Luger collection with this one as my shooter. That way I can not shoot the more expensive ones. Any idea on a date of manufacture?

[alvin]

First Luger is not easy. If its main body comes from a military, it bears no military stamps. If it's commercial, no C/N either. And so many numbers are explicit.

[Ron Smith]

Duane,

You have a rather odd luger there. As Alvin says, no military proofs, the frame is pre-1913(no stock lug), no "Crown N" commercial proofs. Most numbers match with the exception of the rear toggle link. The safety has been force matched. This is weird, since it looks correct otherwise.

Is the barrel serial numbered or marked? Are there any "Crown N" stamps on it anywhere?

Ron

[Ingvarg]

Strange
The frame looks pre 1913 millitary, as previusly said, no stock lug and also I noticed a later added hold open. I thougt that would never been found on comercial Lugers ??
No year mark would tell us 1909 but the rest of the markings wont fit to that ?
Also the ser. number would fit in the 1909 production, Right ?

I would guess this is a first contract 1909 with later armorers or factory replaced and force matched upper.

[LugerVern]

Hold open has been added, note the proof on the right side of the frame.

I also see a crown N on the toggle.

also:

Is that a proof mark on the back side of the frame?

Vern

[Ingvarg]

It would be interesting to se some pic underneath the barrel, and on top of the front sight blade to see if that has been replaced.

[dtu2179]

Originally Posted by Ron Smith

Duane,

You have a rather odd luger there. As Alvin says, no military proofs, the frame is pre-1913(no stock lug), no "Crown N" commercial proofs. Most numbers match with the exception of the rear toggle link. The safety has been force matched. This is weird, since it looks correct otherwise.

Is the barrel serial numbered or marked? Are there any "Crown N" stamps on it anywhere?

Ron

Nope. No other numbers or stamps. Just what you see in the pictures. Also the grips are marked with "72" to match the numbers on the frame.

[dtu2179]

Originally Posted by Ingvarg

It would be interesting to se some pic underneath the barrel, and on top of the front sight blade to see if that has been replaced.

Actually there is a marking on the front sight (see photos) but I cant make it out. Also something oon the right side of the frame (see photos) but again, I cant make it out.

[dtu2179]

Originally Posted by LugerVern

Hold open has been added, note the proof on the right side of the frame.

I also see a crown N on the toggle.

also:

Is that a proof mark on the back side of the frame?

Vern

No. I don't see any proof marks on the back of the frame. I added some more photos of that area.

[Ingvarg]

Thanks.

The proof mark on top of the front sight base means tha the front sight has been replaced, most likely at the same time the hold open was added. There are no ser# on the barrel and the alignment mark at the front sight is missing which tells us that the barrel is likely a reaplacement.
On couple of those pics it looks like there is a faint proof mark on the right sight of the chamber which is correct.
Also it is possible this pistol has an early reblue as the pin for the hold open should be in white, not blue. That could also explain the faint proof marks.

Please correct me if I�´m wrong.

[dtu2179]

Just by looking at it, it looks like it has been re-blued at some point a while ago. Although the dealer claimed that it had not. The dealer clearly misrepresented it to me, which is disheartening. I'm hoping to ballpark a year of manufacture just for my information.

[Ingvarg]

Well: At least the frame is 1909-1913 military, as can be seen by the added hold open and replaced front sight, which was done in 1913, but the top makes it a bit confusing. 1909 is the only year not having the year stamped on top of the chamber, but then the proof marks should be on the left side of the chamber. Also most of the numbered parts should have the numbers "hidden" for that year.
In 1910 the proof marks are moved to the right side, and the year stamped on top of the chamber.
I am not sure about the serial numbers for 1910-1913 but as far as I know yours could fit in the 1909 ser# range.

If you look at my album you can see how the markings are suposed to be on 1909 P08
http://forum.lugerforum.com/album.php?albumid=60

[dtu2179]

Thanks for all the information Ingvarg,

It doesn't look like anyone removed any of the markings, I don't know why they would anyway. I wonder if it was "doctored" in any way. At any rate hopefully it will shoot ok.

[John Sabato]

I believe that your Luger has already been ballparked as to the year... it is definitely pre 1913 and post 1908, but I doubt you will get it much closer than that. The gun has been refinished in my opinion, as evidenced by the lack of use marks on the back of the frame that are usually caused by the toggle... you really can't tell when it may have been refinished.