Maybe a old topic, but which of the Stainless Luger is the best?

Jasta2 · 08-10-2010, 06:31 PM

Thinking about getting a modern made stainless Luger. I take all were made using the same tooling, just different owners making the stainless Lugers. Some I read work quite well, other has quite soft metal and most suffer fron feeding problems. Was one maker more reliable?
Tks,Bill

Lugerdoc · 08-11-2010, 10:06 AM

I don't recommend any of them, primarily since repair parts are not available and galling of the stainless steel is a problem. You might consider a mismatched or reblued original luger as a shooter at around the same price or less. TH

John Sabato · 08-11-2010, 11:59 AM

ALL of the stainless steel lugers were made by one company and marketed by several companies in succession... they are all of the same quality. Unless you are a gunsmith, I would not recommend you buy one.

policeluger · 08-11-2010, 12:53 PM

Take your money and run......and I am a gunsmith.

Edward Tinker · 11-02-2010, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valentine

.... I am not saying what any of the guys said was wrong, but they are misled...

Lou, why would you say that?

They are as entitled to their opinion as much as you?

Personally, everytime I hear that rounds need to be hotter for the luger, I disagree, however, I have never owned one of these, so do not know whether true or not and I defer to your having owned several.

Ed

Steve Richards · 11-03-2010, 11:49 PM

I have two. One is a 6" 9mm that functions just fine with 115gr S&B ammo. That is what they are tuned for at the factory.

The other is a 4.75" .30cal that also works fine with the right ammo. It does not like Fiochi and I have not tried Winchester. I bought a large batch of handloads from a comercial loader who has since retired and it works without problems. When I find some bullets, I will do some hand loading.

I personally like them.

Steve

HisSoldier · 11-05-2010, 10:58 PM

I think one opinion expressed here is almost certainly not true. No stainless steel is equal or better than the best allo y carbon steels except in one area, corrosion resistance.

I don't know what steel was used in the stainless "Lugers" but whatever it is it isn't better than a good gun steel. I try to buy nothing but stainless guns, because I live on the Oregon coast and because I'm lazy.

My position on stainless is based on what custom barrel makers have said on the issue, makers who make barrels out of both alloy carbon steels and stainless steels, specifically 416 stainless. I'm pretty sure the stainless Lugers are not made of 416 stainless, but they could be. There are only so many stainless alloys that can be hardened to values needed in a firearm.

I make a few gun parts out of 416 stainless, commercially, I love the stuff, but would not expect it to take high stress like 4140, for instance.

And I also have always wanted a stainless "Luger".

chromeed · 11-06-2010, 01:39 AM

I have a SPM #8543 SS Luger American Eagle made in 1993. It is my shooter about 1000 rounds in the last year.
I have had the following problems with it:
The tale down lever would fall down on fireing (Doc told me to put a slight bend in the side plate arm and that fixed it).
I also had problems with feeding after the original Magazine had a broken plastic follower. The original magazine is SS with a square spring plastic bottom and a poorly designed plastic follower.
I tried several magazines and found that the magazine from my 1970,s Mauser Luger (Stiff Spring) and a Mec-Gar jammed and my 2 cheep SS mag. single actioned The single action problem was fixed on the SS mags by changing the springs to a Wolf +10% SQR spring. At least in my case I think that the balance of the mag spring is important, too stiff and it jams too weak and it single actions. I also fixed the original magazine by replacing the broken folower with a metal one from a Mec-Gar.
I still have a problem on the last shot, sometimes the action does not stay open (my next fix it project)
I have some worries about deforming of the Horns (see picture) Will it continue to get worse or has it deformed all that it will? It was not this way when I bought the gun. Will this eventually fail?
I am also concerned about ware of SS to SS as you can see on the rear toggle pin and fork (see picture) Is there a special lubricant to use on SS to prevent this ware?
I am happy with the Gun and it shoots well now.

LugerVern · 11-06-2010, 08:33 AM

Thanks for the pictures of the SS Luger problems.

The ramps may self harden and then on the other hand may not.
Try to use lighter ammunition and bullets, if your gun will function with them.

I have not heard of it being done with SS guns but you could research heat treating them for hardness, it worked for HK.

On the ware I would suggest not using products with TPE or graphite. They do help products to slide and stay functional but the particles themselves create and often over looked issue. They act like very very fine lapping compound and slowly remove metal under high pressure. It’s hard to explain but the particles actually push the oil away from the under lying metal, if the pressure is too high they slip causing gouging. Sure the action continues to function but damage occurs.

Good luck

Vern

chromeed · 11-06-2010, 10:01 AM

I use only White Box Winchester 115 gr Ammo.

saab-bob · 11-06-2010, 01:15 PM

Thanks Chormeed for the pics of the deformation of your stainless luger ramps. I read about this problem in a different post and was wondering what it looked like.
I also have a Mitchell SS luger,that I have owned almost since new. Have shot a bunch of rounds thru it with no deformation.
I try to use the least powerful ammo that still functions the action. Since I only shoot at paper,stopping power is not a issue!

What do you use for lubrication? I have had very good luck with the Tetra grease. It seems to mitigate the galling problem that stainless has when sliding over itself.
As a aside,I purchased new in 1977 a 45 ACP AMT Hardballer.Its a 1911 clone made of a early type of stainless steel. It was the first production stainless 45. The Tetra works great on that gun as well,and it has had thousands of round thru it. Of course,I also installed a buffer and a stronger recoil spring to keep the slide from cracking!

Bob

chromeed · 11-07-2010, 03:44 AM

What ammo is lighter than 115 gr Winchester White Box?
I use Hoppes #9 oil and now use a black grease called GunSlick on the arias that I see signs of ware. That GunSlick came with my first gun cleaning kit I purchased in 1958 when I was 14. I also have a Springfield Stainless Steel 1911, it seems to be made of a different SS alloy the color is more gray. I have never had any problems with it It never jams but the Luger feels much better in my hand and the Ammo is less expensive.

sheepherder · 11-07-2010, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chromeed

Is there a special lubricant to use on SS to prevent this wear?

LSA was developed to eliminate galling of the aluminum/steel surfaces on the M16 rifle and it does an admirable job on stainless as well.

Found at any gun show, the white bottle LSA is to me the best. Shake well, apply a thin coat to mating surfaces. I've used it on Colts, S&W's, Coonan, Ruger, and Automag. Never had a galling problem.

wdavid431 · 11-07-2010, 10:35 AM

What is LSA? I wanted to try it on my stainless Luger, but I have never heard of LSA.

saab-bob · 11-07-2010, 05:42 PM

LSA
Lubricant Small Arms. Military issue for M16
Bob

John Sabato · 11-08-2010, 09:58 AM

The lubricant that was originally supplied with my TDE .44 Automag, which was also stainless steel was actually a very similar product to the STP oil treatment that you could purchase in any autoparts store (and was rumored to be the same product).

It is sticky in nature (unless mixed with oil and then it becomes super slippery), but was supposed to prevent galling of the stainless steel...

I fired that gun about 400 times, and don't shoot it any more. It is a gun safe queen now, but I never experience any problems with galling using that lube.

Edward Tinker · 11-08-2010, 10:03 AM

oh, John, i am jealous

I have wanted one of these for many years

ed

sheepherder · 11-08-2010, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Sabato

I fired that gun about 400 times, and don't shoot it any more. It is a gun safe queen now, but I never experience any problems with galling using that lube.

I also owned a 44 Automag, with a spare 357 Automag barrel...Fired about the same number of times...The 44 barrel was Magna-Ported, and when I fired it, guys would hang out of the Gun Club windows to watch...

Three foot ball of fire, and an enormous report...I walked up to the outdoor range to fire one day; two guys and a girl firing 22's & 38's...Girl behind the firing line w/no earmuffs...I put mine on, motioned to my ears...She just smiled & shook her head...I shrugged, loaded five 44 Automag rounds, banged them off, ejected my mag & checked the chamber...Turned my head...the girl was running for her car to get her earmuffs...the two guys were laughing their butts off...

Mine was a later High Standard 44 Automag, but the 357 barrel was a TDE...I still have the dieset, for my S&W N-frame 357/44 conversion...

LSA worked fine with this pistol...I used to get the Automag Club newsletter, but gave them all away with the pistol...

Charging the pistol with the hammer down was a real cast-iron b1tch...You really had to c0ck it first, then charge it...and every joint in my arm felt the recoil...

...But it was a crowd pleaser, no doubt about it...

John Sabato · 11-09-2010, 09:51 AM

Nice writeup Rick... I always wanted a .45acp Automag too... and I don't mean the Hardballer... I am sure I would have shot mine a lot more if I had it in .45

08-10-2010, 06:31 PM	#1
Jasta2 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lakeland, Fl. Posts: 514 Thanks: 349 Thanked 101 Times in 52 Posts	Maybe a old topic, but which of the Stainless Luger is the best? Thinking about getting a modern made stainless Luger. I take all were made using the same tooling, just different owners making the stainless Lugers. Some I read work quite well, other has quite soft metal and most suffer fron feeding problems. Was one maker more reliable? Tks,Bill

08-11-2010, 10:06 AM	#2
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	I don't recommend any of them, primarily since repair parts are not available and galling of the stainless steel is a problem. You might consider a mismatched or reblued original luger as a shooter at around the same price or less. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected]

08-11-2010, 11:59 AM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	ALL of the stainless steel lugers were made by one company and marketed by several companies in succession... they are all of the same quality. Unless you are a gunsmith, I would not recommend you buy one. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-05-2010, 10:58 PM	#7
HisSoldier User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Oregon Coast Posts: 95 Thanks: 1 Thanked 14 Times in 10 Posts	I think one opinion expressed here is almost certainly not true. No stainless steel is equal or better than the best allo y carbon steels except in one area, corrosion resistance. I don't know what steel was used in the stainless "Lugers" but whatever it is it isn't better than a good gun steel. I try to buy nothing but stainless guns, because I live on the Oregon coast and because I'm lazy. My position on stainless is based on what custom barrel makers have said on the issue, makers who make barrels out of both alloy carbon steels and stainless steels, specifically 416 stainless. I'm pretty sure the stainless Lugers are not made of 416 stainless, but they could be. There are only so many stainless alloys that can be hardened to values needed in a firearm. I make a few gun parts out of 416 stainless, commercially, I love the stuff, but would not expect it to take high stress like 4140, for instance. And I also have always wanted a stainless "Luger". __________________ The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom

11-06-2010, 01:15 PM	#11
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	Thanks Chormeed for the pics of the deformation of your stainless luger ramps. I read about this problem in a different post and was wondering what it looked like. I also have a Mitchell SS luger,that I have owned almost since new. Have shot a bunch of rounds thru it with no deformation. I try to use the least powerful ammo that still functions the action. Since I only shoot at paper,stopping power is not a issue! What do you use for lubrication? I have had very good luck with the Tetra grease. It seems to mitigate the galling problem that stainless has when sliding over itself. As a aside,I purchased new in 1977 a 45 ACP AMT Hardballer.Its a 1911 clone made of a early type of stainless steel. It was the first production stainless 45. The Tetra works great on that gun as well,and it has had thousands of round thru it. Of course,I also installed a buffer and a stronger recoil spring to keep the slide from cracking! Bob __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

08-11-2010, 12:53 PM	#4
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Take your money and run......and I am a gunsmith.

11-03-2010, 11:49 PM	#6
Steve Richards User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Beaverton, Oregon Posts: 487 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have two. One is a 6" 9mm that functions just fine with 115gr S&B ammo. That is what they are tuned for at the factory. The other is a 4.75" .30cal that also works fine with the right ammo. It does not like Fiochi and I have not tried Winchester. I bought a large batch of handloads from a comercial loader who has since retired and it works without problems. When I find some bullets, I will do some hand loading. I personally like them. Steve

11-06-2010, 01:39 AM	#8
chromeed User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: North Georgia Posts: 81 Thanks: 1 Thanked 27 Times in 9 Posts	I have a SPM #8543 SS Luger American Eagle made in 1993. It is my shooter about 1000 rounds in the last year. I have had the following problems with it: The tale down lever would fall down on fireing (Doc told me to put a slight bend in the side plate arm and that fixed it). I also had problems with feeding after the original Magazine had a broken plastic follower. The original magazine is SS with a square spring plastic bottom and a poorly designed plastic follower. I tried several magazines and found that the magazine from my 1970,s Mauser Luger (Stiff Spring) and a Mec-Gar jammed and my 2 cheep SS mag. single actioned The single action problem was fixed on the SS mags by changing the springs to a Wolf +10% SQR spring. At least in my case I think that the balance of the mag spring is important, too stiff and it jams too weak and it single actions. I also fixed the original magazine by replacing the broken folower with a metal one from a Mec-Gar. I still have a problem on the last shot, sometimes the action does not stay open (my next fix it project) I have some worries about deforming of the Horns (see picture) Will it continue to get worse or has it deformed all that it will? It was not this way when I bought the gun. Will this eventually fail? I am also concerned about ware of SS to SS as you can see on the rear toggle pin and fork (see picture) Is there a special lubricant to use on SS to prevent this ware? I am happy with the Gun and it shoots well now. Attached Images

11-06-2010, 08:33 AM	#9
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	Thanks for the pictures of the SS Luger problems. The ramps may self harden and then on the other hand may not. Try to use lighter ammunition and bullets, if your gun will function with them. I have not heard of it being done with SS guns but you could research heat treating them for hardness, it worked for HK. On the ware I would suggest not using products with TPE or graphite. They do help products to slide and stay functional but the particles themselves create and often over looked issue. They act like very very fine lapping compound and slowly remove metal under high pressure. It’s hard to explain but the particles actually push the oil away from the under lying metal, if the pressure is too high they slip causing gouging. Sure the action continues to function but damage occurs. Good luck Vern

11-06-2010, 10:01 AM	#10
chromeed User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: North Georgia Posts: 81 Thanks: 1 Thanked 27 Times in 9 Posts	I use only White Box Winchester 115 gr Ammo.

11-07-2010, 03:44 AM	#12
chromeed User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: North Georgia Posts: 81 Thanks: 1 Thanked 27 Times in 9 Posts	What ammo is lighter than 115 gr Winchester White Box? I use Hoppes #9 oil and now use a black grease called GunSlick on the arias that I see signs of ware. That GunSlick came with my first gun cleaning kit I purchased in 1958 when I was 14. I also have a Springfield Stainless Steel 1911, it seems to be made of a different SS alloy the color is more gray. I have never had any problems with it It never jams but the Luger feels much better in my hand and the Ammo is less expensive.

11-07-2010, 10:35 AM	#14
wdavid431 User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Arkansas Posts: 135 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	What is LSA? I wanted to try it on my stainless Luger, but I have never heard of LSA. __________________ W David

11-07-2010, 05:42 PM	#15
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	LSA Lubricant Small Arms. Military issue for M16 Bob __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

11-08-2010, 09:58 AM	#16
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	The lubricant that was originally supplied with my TDE .44 Automag, which was also stainless steel was actually a very similar product to the STP oil treatment that you could purchase in any autoparts store (and was rumored to be the same product). It is sticky in nature (unless mixed with oil and then it becomes super slippery), but was supposed to prevent galling of the stainless steel... I fired that gun about 400 times, and don't shoot it any more. It is a gun safe queen now, but I never experience any problems with galling using that lube. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-08-2010, 10:03 AM	#17
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	oh, John, i am jealous I have wanted one of these for many years ed

11-09-2010, 09:51 AM	#19
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Nice writeup Rick... I always wanted a .45acp Automag too... and I don't mean the Hardballer... I am sure I would have shot mine a lot more if I had it in .45 __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*