Questions

dan · 01-08-2002, 01:20 AM

My father just gave me the Luger that he removed from a dead German Officer back in WW2. It's has 1928 stamped on it, so I guess it was manufactured in 1928.

How do I start to research this gun and find out what the value would be? It looks to me to be in fine original shape and has the original holster with the officer's name in it. I have always loved this gun from the time I was a kid.

Lonnie Zimmerman · 01-08-2002, 01:25 AM

Dan; I have never seen or heard of a Luger stamped with 1928!!//??

Lonnie

dan · 01-08-2002, 01:39 AM

OOPs Its stamped 1921. My mistake.

Lonnie Zimmerman · 01-08-2002, 01:54 AM

Dan; do you have a way to send pictures? The only way we on the forum can help is by seeing it or getting a good discription of all the marks. Obviously it was made in 1921. What are the markings on the holster?

Lonnie

Doug · 01-08-2002, 02:39 AM

Probably a Police rework, does it have the sear safety (little bar on top on side plate)? I have two that started out as something else and later had the original date and proofs removed and re-stamped with the new issue date.

01-08-2002, 07:25 AM

Dan, lets go as if you can't get a picture of her right now, so take a good look at her:

What kind of markings are on the toggle? (this will give us a maker).

Look on the barrel on the right, any proof markings? (On the left of the forum is a technical section that can help and this can tell us more of a year).

Year is there, kind of grips?

What kind of finish? How does it look?

Serial number should be on the bottom of the barrel and then the last two #'s through out the gun. {If there are different last two numbers, then it is a parts gun. My Mauser 42 is a parts gun, same set of #'s on the top receiver and then a different set on the bottom part, you can see what happened, Joseph the armorer put the wrong ones together?}.

That should be a start?

Ed

Dok · 01-08-2002, 10:25 AM

in the Frequently Asked Questions link of the General Information section. It will tell you what to look for, and why all this is imprtant.

Dok (Webmaster)

Joe · 01-08-2002, 04:37 PM

Every hand me down Luger has a story that it was always taken from an officer. Ever hear a story that one was taken from a private, corperal sergeant? They were issued to enlisted men, officers usually bought their own sidearms.

About 8 years ago I bought a Mauser model 1914 from a guy whoes father had an actual picture of him standing next to the German "general" he had just captured and taken the gun from. The only problem was the older German's collar tabs stated he was a sergeant. The seller became very pissed off at me when I informed him of the POW's rank.

If only these pistols could talk.

01-08-2002, 05:18 PM

God forbid, but if I were to somehow end up a casualty of this war on terrorism, I sincerely hope that the enemy who passes my M-16 down to his children refers to me as the American SERGEANT he took the weapon from. Officers do make more prestigious targets, however. (Aim at mine while I sneak up and cut your throat!) Who were sidearms issued to? Was it a rank thing, based on duty requirements or a combination of both? Take care...

Sgt. Denny Cox

U.S. Army

Orv Reichert · 01-08-2002, 05:18 PM

FOR MY FAVORITE B___S___ STORY!

Orv

BILL · 01-08-2002, 06:45 PM

I also would like to know..what was the criteria for issuing a German soldier a Luger? WWI and WWII were probably different. I can imagine that the PR that the nazis used had a lot more soldiers standing in formation than the WWI era. I don't know if there is a hard and fast rule as to who got the Lugers but there should be some kind of rule of thumb. It has been said here that officers were required to purchase their own sidearms (and apparently most of them did not care for the Luger when they could have smaller, more up to date pistols). That was the case, I believe, in WWII but I have never read anything about the WWI officers and what they preferred or might have been issued. Anyone know this?

Joe · 01-08-2002, 08:35 PM

If the German officers bought their own side arms and they wished to carry the Luger would it not then be a commercial model vs. a military contact? All these guns taken off the dead or captured officers are military models. Now some field officer may have picked one up from a wounded or dead member of his command, but all of these captured Lugers claim to hase been in the hands of officers. How many period pictures show German officers, especially higher ranking ones carring Lugers?

Lugers were "tools" issued to those who needed to keep their hands free for other duties; radio operators, machine gun crews, motorcycle drivers, paratroopers [who carried empty rifles when jumping and needed something if they had to immediatly defend themselves when they landed] and other similar troops.

Why is it so important to have been taken from an officer?

01-08-2002, 11:30 PM

Everyone always wants to have an "Officers Gun".

When you deal with civilians, they don't have a lot of concept of the military, and they have no idea what they do. I don't mean this disparagingly, as I retired from the Army as a enlisted Sergeant, but over the years, as I talk to civilians, and you mention you were in the army, they want to know if I was an officer. Or they have a Brother, Dad, Uncle, and he was a Major or Colonel. It isn't very often I hear someone (strictly civilian) who says, "Oh, my Dad retired as a Corporal, he would have retired as a Sergeant Major, but he kept getting into trouble,... "

In the movies, you see some Major and he can't make a decision unless the General okays it... Sorry, in some regards that is true, but I know too many Majors, let along Buck Sergeants that make some pretty important decisions. It simply comes down to movie makers having no clue about the military.

So, to make a long story short, those stories about the GI that captured the Sergeant and took a Luger / PPK, etc., off of him, I believe a lot more than the SS Officer who didn't need it anymore.

Ed

dan · 01-09-2002, 12:46 AM

I'm not sure if it came from an officer or not, but I do know that he got it off of a German who had been killed. (He was dead before my father found him). I have the papers that his comanting officer gave to him so bring it back into the states. Some sort of custom papers, that says

"As his comading officer, I certify that the above named

-------by authority of this Theater Commander to retain the above items of captured enemy material (the 9mm Luger) it was dated July 23 1945. The papers are pretty hammered. The holster is stamped with what looks like WaA100 with a swastica (don't know if that's spelled right) below it. As far as I can tell, all the numbers are matching.

Is there any way for me to post a picture on this site?

01-09-2002, 01:39 AM

Cool, nice story.

Earlier, I didn't mean anything specific on your story as not being true. It was a general statement, I should have started a new thread.

Yes, you can post pictures here, by posting a response as a new thread, at the top it says upload photo and then browse on your hard drive to where the photo is located.

Ed

Milt Keller · 01-09-2002, 03:37 AM

I have spent 43 long years deeply involved in the study of the number of Prusian/German officers vs the number of Lugers assigmed/issued/claimed taken from their cold lifeless bodies(Officers, both Prussian/German), and, what do you think? they total! The officers and the total of the Lugers on the Luger forum... TOTAL!

Yours in Humour...

Milt Keller

01-09-2002, 09:07 AM

OK, here is my opinion on this thread. I laugh evertime I see that a particular pistol was taken from a German Officer as 99% probably came from and enlisted man, was traded for by the US soldier, or bought from someone on the black market.

I think that where the "Officer" thing comes from is the lack of knowledge by the US soldier as to the rank of the German soldier. The German uniform is much different than the American. The Germans wore epulets (spelling) on thier uniform, they also wore their awards on their uniform as pride. This really could make a private appear to be an officer if he had his full uniform on. The American soldiers were young boys when this happened and they had never been schooled or tought what the German uniform looked like so they just thought they were all officers. Just an opinion.

Marvin C.

01-09-2002, 12:37 PM

Denny & Bill, The guys are correct in saying that most German Officers were required to purchase there own walking around pistol as a sign of rank in both WW1 & 2. Usually, they bought some thing small and cheap, for dress parade and going on leave. If stationed at the front as a unit commander, etc. they were issued a 9mm (an MP40 being my first choice) which they would turn-in when they left. Quite a few enlisted also qualified for temporary issue pistols when in the combat zone. AAA crews, MG crews, stretcher bearer, etc. Usually, those carrying other stuff, where a 98K would get in the way. For much more detailed break down by type of unit from the original instructions on the subject, see Bob Whittington's "German Pistols & Holsters ---" Vol.4.

01-09-2002, 12:39 PM

That is a good observation. I know 20 year veterans (myself included ) that could get confused on a dress navy uniform ! Let alone a foreign enlisted or officer!

Ed

01-10-2002, 01:24 AM

Have to learn where to look to find out what they are saying!!!

ViggoG

01-08-2002, 01:20 AM	#1
dan User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Questions My father just gave me the Luger that he removed from a dead German Officer back in WW2. It's has 1928 stamped on it, so I guess it was manufactured in 1928. How do I start to research this gun and find out what the value would be? It looks to me to be in fine original shape and has the original holster with the officer's name in it. I have always loved this gun from the time I was a kid.

01-08-2002, 01:25 AM	#2
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Questions Dan; I have never seen or heard of a Luger stamped with 1928!!//?? Lonnie

01-08-2002, 01:39 AM	#3
dan User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Questions OOPs Its stamped 1921. My mistake.

01-08-2002, 01:54 AM	#4
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Questions Dan; do you have a way to send pictures? The only way we on the forum can help is by seeing it or getting a good discription of all the marks. Obviously it was made in 1921. What are the markings on the holster? Lonnie

01-08-2002, 02:39 AM	#5
Doug User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: USA Posts: 168 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Questions Probably a Police rework, does it have the sear safety (little bar on top on side plate)? I have two that started out as something else and later had the original date and proofs removed and re-stamped with the new issue date.

01-08-2002, 07:25 AM	#6
66mustang Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Questions Dan, lets go as if you can't get a picture of her right now, so take a good look at her: What kind of markings are on the toggle? (this will give us a maker). Look on the barrel on the right, any proof markings? (On the left of the forum is a technical section that can help and this can tell us more of a year). Year is there, kind of grips? What kind of finish? How does it look? Serial number should be on the bottom of the barrel and then the last two #'s through out the gun. {If there are different last two numbers, then it is a parts gun. My Mauser 42 is a parts gun, same set of #'s on the top receiver and then a different set on the bottom part, you can see what happened, Joseph the armorer put the wrong ones together?}. That should be a start? Ed

01-08-2002, 10:25 AM	#7
Dok RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bermuda (Eat Your Heart Out) Posts: 1,626 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Also read the FAQ "What's my pistol worth?"... in the Frequently Asked Questions link of the General Information section. It will tell you what to look for, and why all this is imprtant. Dok (Webmaster)

01-08-2002, 04:37 PM	#8
Joe User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 96 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Taken from a German officer Every hand me down Luger has a story that it was always taken from an officer. Ever hear a story that one was taken from a private, corperal sergeant? They were issued to enlisted men, officers usually bought their own sidearms. About 8 years ago I bought a Mauser model 1914 from a guy whoes father had an actual picture of him standing next to the German "general" he had just captured and taken the gun from. The only problem was the older German's collar tabs stated he was a sergeant. The seller became very pissed off at me when I informed him of the POW's rank. If only these pistols could talk.

01-08-2002, 05:18 PM	#9
Denny Cox Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Taken from a German officer God forbid, but if I were to somehow end up a casualty of this war on terrorism, I sincerely hope that the enemy who passes my M-16 down to his children refers to me as the American SERGEANT he took the weapon from. Officers do make more prestigious targets, however. (Aim at mine while I sneak up and cut your throat!) Who were sidearms issued to? Was it a rank thing, based on duty requirements or a combination of both? Take care... Sgt. Denny Cox U.S. Army

01-08-2002, 05:18 PM	#10
Orv Reichert RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SW Washington State Posts: 339 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	SEE POO POO DEL TORO POSTING FOR MY FAVORITE B___S___ STORY! Orv

01-08-2002, 06:45 PM	#11
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Taken from a German officer I also would like to know..what was the criteria for issuing a German soldier a Luger? WWI and WWII were probably different. I can imagine that the PR that the nazis used had a lot more soldiers standing in formation than the WWI era. I don't know if there is a hard and fast rule as to who got the Lugers but there should be some kind of rule of thumb. It has been said here that officers were required to purchase their own sidearms (and apparently most of them did not care for the Luger when they could have smaller, more up to date pistols). That was the case, I believe, in WWII but I have never read anything about the WWI officers and what they preferred or might have been issued. Anyone know this?

01-08-2002, 08:35 PM	#12
Joe User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 96 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Taken from a German officer If the German officers bought their own side arms and they wished to carry the Luger would it not then be a commercial model vs. a military contact? All these guns taken off the dead or captured officers are military models. Now some field officer may have picked one up from a wounded or dead member of his command, but all of these captured Lugers claim to hase been in the hands of officers. How many period pictures show German officers, especially higher ranking ones carring Lugers? Lugers were "tools" issued to those who needed to keep their hands free for other duties; radio operators, machine gun crews, motorcycle drivers, paratroopers [who carried empty rifles when jumping and needed something if they had to immediatly defend themselves when they landed] and other similar troops. Why is it so important to have been taken from an officer?

01-08-2002, 11:30 PM	#13
66mustang Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Taken from a German officer Everyone always wants to have an "Officers Gun". When you deal with civilians, they don't have a lot of concept of the military, and they have no idea what they do. I don't mean this disparagingly, as I retired from the Army as a enlisted Sergeant, but over the years, as I talk to civilians, and you mention you were in the army, they want to know if I was an officer. Or they have a Brother, Dad, Uncle, and he was a Major or Colonel. It isn't very often I hear someone (strictly civilian) who says, "Oh, my Dad retired as a Corporal, he would have retired as a Sergeant Major, but he kept getting into trouble,... " In the movies, you see some Major and he can't make a decision unless the General okays it... Sorry, in some regards that is true, but I know too many Majors, let along Buck Sergeants that make some pretty important decisions. It simply comes down to movie makers having no clue about the military. So, to make a long story short, those stories about the GI that captured the Sergeant and took a Luger / PPK, etc., off of him, I believe a lot more than the SS Officer who didn't need it anymore. Ed

01-09-2002, 12:46 AM	#14
dan User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Taken from a German officer, more of the story I'm not sure if it came from an officer or not, but I do know that he got it off of a German who had been killed. (He was dead before my father found him). I have the papers that his comanting officer gave to him so bring it back into the states. Some sort of custom papers, that says "As his comading officer, I certify that the above named -------by authority of this Theater Commander to retain the above items of captured enemy material (the 9mm Luger) it was dated July 23 1945. The papers are pretty hammered. The holster is stamped with what looks like WaA100 with a swastica (don't know if that's spelled right) below it. As far as I can tell, all the numbers are matching. Is there any way for me to post a picture on this site?

01-09-2002, 01:39 AM	#15
66mustang Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Taken from a German officer, more of the story Cool, nice story. Earlier, I didn't mean anything specific on your story as not being true. It was a general statement, I should have started a new thread. Yes, you can post pictures here, by posting a response as a new thread, at the top it says upload photo and then browse on your hard drive to where the photo is located. Ed

01-09-2002, 03:37 AM	#16
Milt Keller User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 191 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Taken from a German officer I have spent 43 long years deeply involved in the study of the number of Prusian/German officers vs the number of Lugers assigmed/issued/claimed taken from their cold lifeless bodies(Officers, both Prussian/German), and, what do you think? they total! The officers and the total of the Lugers on the Luger forum... TOTAL! Yours in Humour... Milt Keller

01-09-2002, 09:07 AM	#17
Marvin C. Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Taken from a German officer OK, here is my opinion on this thread. I laugh evertime I see that a particular pistol was taken from a German Officer as 99% probably came from and enlisted man, was traded for by the US soldier, or bought from someone on the black market. I think that where the "Officer" thing comes from is the lack of knowledge by the US soldier as to the rank of the German soldier. The German uniform is much different than the American. The Germans wore epulets (spelling) on thier uniform, they also wore their awards on their uniform as pride. This really could make a private appear to be an officer if he had his full uniform on. The American soldiers were young boys when this happened and they had never been schooled or tought what the German uniform looked like so they just thought they were all officers. Just an opinion. Marvin C.

01-09-2002, 12:37 PM	#18
tom h Guest Posts: n/a	Re:Enlisted pistol issue Denny & Bill, The guys are correct in saying that most German Officers were required to purchase there own walking around pistol as a sign of rank in both WW1 & 2. Usually, they bought some thing small and cheap, for dress parade and going on leave. If stationed at the front as a unit commander, etc. they were issued a 9mm (an MP40 being my first choice) which they would turn-in when they left. Quite a few enlisted also qualified for temporary issue pistols when in the combat zone. AAA crews, MG crews, stretcher bearer, etc. Usually, those carrying other stuff, where a 98K would get in the way. For much more detailed break down by type of unit from the original instructions on the subject, see Bob Whittington's "German Pistols & Holsters ---" Vol.4.

01-09-2002, 12:39 PM	#19
66mustang Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Taken from a German officer That is a good observation. I know 20 year veterans (myself included ) that could get confused on a dress navy uniform ! Let alone a foreign enlisted or officer! Ed

01-10-2002, 01:24 AM	#20
Viggo G Dereng Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Most of them can and do talk its you who- - Have to learn where to look to find out what they are saying!!! ViggoG