Can someone help identify Holster?

[Glockmodel2145carrier]

This holster has been in the family since my grandfather, and I never really payed much mind to it at all until recently. It was given to me along with the Luger which is a 1913 Erfurt all matching 6718, so i did a relative amount of playing around with reseaching it, however this holster eludes me.

I dont even believe its a german luger holster, mainly because of the design,i.e how it is clasped, unless it was rushed. You can tell by pictures that it is well used and worn in all the right places. But you be the judge.

Only markings are in two places, first is on main flap, to right of latching. States in odd stamping"S. LI. III 51. then second in on back where barrel would sit in holster on magazine side, " SKO. I. N.7. 54.

as said, im oblivious to this. Im in the military and it remotly resembles a unit Identification, but Im usually wrong if it isnt a colt m-4

[Schupo]

Your markings indicate police use. They represent the Schutzpolizei of Liegnitz (S.Li.) and the Schutzpolizei of Koln (S.Ko.). These are post-WWI property stamps per the Prussian Police marking instructions of 1922. Does your pistol have any property markings on the gripstrap or a police safety on the left side of the frame?

I hope this helps.

[Lugerdoc]

Judging by the remaining stitching holes where the closure buckel once was, this probably started life as a standard pattern WW1 holster (any maker marks inside the flap?) and was later modified by the police, for quicker opening. TH

[Glockmodel2145carrier]

I truly appreciate that Information! Its fascinating to find out that it could have been a modification. I did something similar in Afghanistan with my mag pouches, removed the elastic retention straps for quicker removal haha.

No markings anywhere other than those two places. none under flap, not even the slightest impression or sign of a stamp or written marks.

the markings on back strap of pistol actually is the same as one on the holster, cant believe i never payed any mind to it. it states

SKO. I. N.7. 54 its moderately scrunched together, but still distinctive. the O has two dots over it. its kinda small so i figured it was an import mark.

also, im not sure what a police safety would be but it does say geirshert "spelling unsure, not home with it"

"bare in mind all I do is shoot it when i do reenactments, so if what i missed seems oblivious, forgive me "

the gun also had a spare barrel, and grips as well, but they do not match, or bear any markings best I can tell. also the id card pictured has always been with the weapon. The wehrmacht id card has alot of unit information in it as well, along with his deployments. If this would help or your interested ill provide anything you would like.

also more pictures if you want. or if it would spark your desire to investigate it

Once again thank you very very much. I actually as typing this am visiting my grandparents, it pleases him very much to finally have an idea of what he had. you guys made a grumpy old man a school girl

[John Sabato]

Please show photos of the spare barrel and other items. Maybe we can provide some info on those as well. Our salutes to your grandfather for his service to our country... and Yours too!

[Schupo]

"...also, im not sure what a police safety would be but it does say geirshert "spelling unsure, not home with it"

The police added secondary safeties to many of their pistols that were not on military Lugers. Here is a photo of a normally encountered police safety. The safety is a flat spring held on one end by a rivet on the top left side of the frame. You can see it at the top of the pistol in this photo.

[Don M]

Dan,

You may be interested in some of the probable history of this rig from History Writ in Steel.

The holster probably began its police service in the early 1920s with the Schutzpolizei of the Liegnitz district. This was in the eastern Prussian border province of Niederschlesien. This area had Schupo commands in five cities in the early Weimar years but, by 1931, there was only one command stationed in Görlitz. As a consequence of the downsizing, the holster was probably surplus and was transferred to Köln (Cologne).

The British occupiers of Köln prohibited the Schupo of that city from converting from Mauser C96s to P08s until about 1926, which probably was about the time that the holster was transferred and married to this pistol.

I would love to see more photos of the gun, including the left side, top and marking on the rear grip strap. I am also unable to see the Liegnitz marking on the front of the cover in the photos you have posted.

[Glockmodel2145carrier]

I truly appreciate the Info, probably the most interesting thing ive come to possession of thus far. It truly tickles me that it could have been Police issue.

As sad as it may seem, my cell phone camera is all I have along with my Mrs. as well. However I got her to take some pictures for you since I wont be back home for a few days. Shes pretty gun savy and didnt do a bad job, hope they help.

Shupo, I think I see what you talking about, here is the side of the luger you showed me and I cant find any difference so i think it has what you mentioned.


heres what she did for the left side for ya Don

And as for the flap on the Holster, I even tried to get it in the picture, Its very hard to get a good picture of. She got it kinda better oddly its deeply stamped, but its thick embedding, and it has deep x's stamped on it. ill try and borrow a good camera when i get home for you guys. workin with a straight talk phone right now haha.

She ended up gettin ticked off, but when I get back Ill get some of each part and it broken down for ya. and ill try and get the backstrap. It doesnt look like the others online, its quite small, but ill try and get a good angle.

just bare with me

Oh and those extra items from what she said, was a whole "what i call the upper, the thing you **** "pull" EDIT back, its dated 42, with the german eagle stamps, a barrel with no markings best she could tell. and also allot of small parts for it, main one i could tell by her description is the thing you rotate downward to take it apart."hope that makes sense"

Give me a couple days on it, Have to be at the Armory for training this weekend, but ill get these up for you in the mean time.

"by the way, anyone know of a site that does info on items, like field caps, badges, a uniform and id cards? im trying to make little placecards for all this stuff in my display room but dont know bout em." I have the big book printed by US War department about the german army, but that only goes so far.


Thanks allot fellas, been a hoot so far

Dan

[Schupo]

Yep, you have a police pistol with the added sear safety. BTW, the eagle within a wreath patch next to your pistol is the insignia for a Police Officer soft cap.

[Don M]

Dan,

The fact that the Liegnitz marking on the holster is canceled supports the sequence of ownership I postulated.

Your gun does have the police (sear) safety that Schupo illustrated and appears to have once had a magazine safety which was another safety added in 1934. The mag safeties were not successful and nearly all were removed. Your gun does not have a notch in the upper left corner of the left grip panel which would have been present with a mag safety. Either the photo is misleading or the grip has been replaced. In any event, the sear safety indicates the gun remained in police service in Köln throughout WWII.

I am confused about the descriptions of the pistol. At the outset, you stated that it is a 1913 Erfurt which would indicate that it has 1913 stamped on the top of the chamber, an Erfurt logo on the toggle train and many acceptance stamps on various parts of the gun. Without a photo of the top of the gun, I can't verify the first two but the available photos don't seem to show the acceptance stamps, possibly a consequence of the quality. Also, your wife's comment about a "42" stamped on the toggle train would suggest that it has been replaced by a WWII-era component.

If you really want to run this to the ground, I suggest borrowing a friend's camera and taking higher quality photos of the top, left and right sides, front of frame below barrel, front grip strap and rear grip strap. These should allow us to determine just what you have.

As to your question about a site on German WWII memorabilia, I suggest http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/.

[Glockmodel2145carrier]

If typing looks bad im on a phone

Your gun does not have a notch in the upper left corner of the left grip panel which would have been present with a mag safety. Either the photo is misleading or the grip has been replaced.

"im really not sure what to look for on that. Not trying to mislead ya :P just dont know what exactly to show or look for. I will get ya more pics, thats no problem, had a crown, i do recall that for sure.

as for grips it is entirely possible they were replaced, in fact I think it may have been, as the gun has replacement parts with it that do not match. Ill get as much detail as i can for ya Don, i can tell ya know ya stuff bud. You can be as honest as ya want, and ill show what ive got, not looking for value or anything, just a probable story "havent sold a gun in my life, Im a hoarder haha"

Thats pretty nifty that patch is police, somebody told me is was feldgenderm or something, but i think they are the same group? Gramps had it in a WWII medical box, with that ID card, medals, a fur hat with wehrmacht insignia, a bunch of his pictures, some other papers. I do know that the red case its in was made for him by one of his buddies defiantly not WWII at all.

One other question, when you say backstrap, Is that the lanyard that hooks to it for retention, cause thats what i have and was talking about in the last post. If its not then im not familiar with that term, I only carry a Glock 21 regularly so bare with me?

"sorry if my pictures look misleading, but the ol girl is a shooter, and a passer downer anyway, so im not bein sneaky "


"I am gonna print off the posts about the probable life of the holster and all, if that ok, to keep with the stuff if thats ok with you. "you were kind enough to help, so i figure id ask out of respect"

[Don M]

Dan,

A clear photo of the left side of the frame just above the grip would help clarify whether this gun had a magazine safety or not. This device required cutting a narrow slot up from the bottom edge of this rail. See the attached photo. From your photo, it looks as if there was one that has been filled in. The photo below also shows the notch in the upper left of the grip panel that yours does not have.

By "back strap" I mean whatever you meant when you said above "the markings on back strap of pistol actually is the same as one on the holster." I'm really interested in seeing the marking on the pistol and I was surprised at the location I interpreted from your post. Nearly all police markings are on the front grip strap which is the front portion of the frame between the two wood grip panels. One very rarely finds this mark on the back side of the grip.

You are most welcome to use my posts.