Simson reworked luger marked S

gerard · 04-22-2011, 11:53 AM

I own this Simson reworked Luger that was formely in the asset of two leading Belgian collectors : http://www.poudlard.com/annonce/dwm.htm

I would like to know if anybody here already came accross this quite rare "Simson" marking.

Edward Tinker · 04-23-2011, 06:35 AM

It is a a Circle S, and in my opinion it is NOT a Simson rework marking.

You find this marking on mainly police guns, and in fact, I personally believe it is a police unit marking.

This is discussed in Don Maus' book and will be discussed in the new Police Lugers book that will come out in the summer.

You can do searches here on the forum and read about Circle S guns.

Ed

gerard · 04-23-2011, 07:25 AM

Thank you for the return.

I suppose that it will last still a little bit of time before reaching any certainty about this marking.

gerard · 04-26-2011, 09:13 AM

Another circle s marked Luger will be offered soon in auction at Hermann Historika.

Here is the German description attached to this item :

Pistole 08 DWM 1918/1920, Simson- und Mauser-Rework mit Tasche,

Kal. 9 mm Para, Nr. 1667a. Nummerngleich bis auf Schlagbolzen. Lauf schwach matt. Gabelstück einer langen P.08, linksseitig gemarkt "S" im Kreis für Simson, rechts div. kaiserliche Abnahmen, daneben Adler/"HZa..3" und Adler/"63", der Lauf mit "42" für Mauser. Originale Brünierungen aus Zeiten der Überarbeitung, partiell fleckig. Kleinteile gelb angelassen. Nussholzgriffschalen. Vernickeltes Falzmagazin mit Holzboden, Nr. 5564. Zugehörig eine getragene, schwarze Rindsledertasche, Fertigung "Karl Böcker / 1939 / Waldbröl" mit WaA-Abnahme. Nähte und Zugriemen in Ordnung.
Erwerbsscheinpflichtig.

policeluger · 04-26-2011, 09:30 AM

well that should clear it up....

Edward Tinker · 04-26-2011, 09:46 AM

No advanced collector I know, to include in europe knows what the circle S stands for.

It is possible that it stands for Simson, but why a circle S instead of the waffen type of acceptance, plus in such an odd place.

Ed

silverknife · 04-26-2011, 10:09 AM

[QUOTE=gerard;193926]Another circle s marked Luger will be offered soon in auction at Hermann Historika.

Here is the German description attached to this item :

Pistole 08 DWM 1918/1920, Simson- und Mauser-Rework mit Tasche,

Kal. 9 mm Para, Nr. 1667a. Nummerngleich bis auf Schlagbolzen. Lauf schwach matt. Gabelstück einer langen P.08, linksseitig gemarkt "S" im Kreis für Simson, rechts div. kaiserliche Abnahmen, daneben Adler/"HZa..3" und Adler/"63", der Lauf mit "42" für Mauser. Originale Brünierungen aus Zeiten der Überarbeitung, partiell fleckig. Kleinteile gelb angelassen. Nussholzgriffschalen. Vernickeltes Falzmagazin mit Holzboden, Nr. 5564. Zugehörig eine getragene, schwarze Rindsledertasche, Fertigung "Karl Böcker / 1939 / Waldbröl" mit WaA-Abnahme. Nähte und Zugriemen in Ordnung.
Erwerbsscheinpflichtig.

"9 mm Para, Nr 1667a. Matching numbers except the firing pin. Running slightly dull. P.08 a long fork, marked on the left side "S" in the circle for Simson, right various imperial declines, along with Eagle / "HZA .. 3" and Adler / "63", the term with "42" for Mauser. Original browning from the days of revision, partially stained. Small parts can be yellow. Walnut grips. Nickel magazine with wood flooring, No. 5564th Belonging to a solemn, black leather bag, manufacturing "Karl Böcker / 1939 / Waldbröl with WaA-acceptance. Stitches and traction belt in order. Purchase prescription slip."

So sayeth an online translator.

Regards,
Doug

gerard · 04-26-2011, 10:12 AM

Note that I did not add this sample to accredit or discredit any thesis about the S marking.

It was just to make you aware of this new example. To be add to the known listing to date.

Nobody knows really where the circle S comes from. An it will probably remain such for long. Mystery is a part of the pleasure.

Edward Tinker · 04-26-2011, 10:33 AM

Thanks Gerard,

I think I had seen this luger before. There are several collectors that I know who have been interested in the circle S for many years and we keep each other informed when we come across them.

Ed

A.Mifsin · 04-26-2011, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

Thanks Gerard,

I think I had seen this luger before. There are several collectors that I know who have been interested in the circle S for many years and we keep each other informed when we come across them.

Ed

Ed, I am interested in this Luger, the one at Herman Historica, but the description, " Pistole 08 DWM 1918/1920, Simson- und Mauser-Rework mit Tasche, " put me off. Is this Luger correct?
Any help is appreciated.
Alf.

04-22-2011, 11:53 AM	#1
gerard User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 35 Times in 23 Posts	Simson reworked luger marked S I own this Simson reworked Luger that was formely in the asset of two leading Belgian collectors : http://www.poudlard.com/annonce/dwm.htm I would like to know if anybody here already came accross this quite rare "Simson" marking.

04-23-2011, 06:35 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	It is a a Circle S, and in my opinion it is NOT a Simson rework marking. You find this marking on mainly police guns, and in fact, I personally believe it is a police unit marking. This is discussed in Don Maus' book and will be discussed in the new Police Lugers book that will come out in the summer. You can do searches here on the forum and read about Circle S guns. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-23-2011, 07:25 AM	#3
gerard User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 35 Times in 23 Posts	Thank you Thank you for the return. I suppose that it will last still a little bit of time before reaching any certainty about this marking.

04-26-2011, 09:13 AM	#4
gerard User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 35 Times in 23 Posts	another circle s marked Luger for sale Another circle s marked Luger will be offered soon in auction at Hermann Historika. Here is the German description attached to this item : Pistole 08 DWM 1918/1920, Simson- und Mauser-Rework mit Tasche, Kal. 9 mm Para, Nr. 1667a. Nummerngleich bis auf Schlagbolzen. Lauf schwach matt. Gabelstück einer langen P.08, linksseitig gemarkt "S" im Kreis für Simson, rechts div. kaiserliche Abnahmen, daneben Adler/"HZa..3" und Adler/"63", der Lauf mit "42" für Mauser. Originale Brünierungen aus Zeiten der Überarbeitung, partiell fleckig. Kleinteile gelb angelassen. Nussholzgriffschalen. Vernickeltes Falzmagazin mit Holzboden, Nr. 5564. Zugehörig eine getragene, schwarze Rindsledertasche, Fertigung "Karl Böcker / 1939 / Waldbröl" mit WaA-Abnahme. Nähte und Zugriemen in Ordnung. Erwerbsscheinpflichtig.

04-26-2011, 09:46 AM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	No advanced collector I know, to include in europe knows what the circle S stands for. It is possible that it stands for Simson, but why a circle S instead of the waffen type of acceptance, plus in such an odd place. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-26-2011, 09:30 AM	#5
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	well that should clear it up....

04-26-2011, 10:09 AM	#7
silverknife User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Western New York Posts: 78 Thanks: 11 Thanked 19 Times in 13 Posts	[QUOTE=gerard;193926]Another circle s marked Luger will be offered soon in auction at Hermann Historika. Here is the German description attached to this item : Pistole 08 DWM 1918/1920, Simson- und Mauser-Rework mit Tasche, Kal. 9 mm Para, Nr. 1667a. Nummerngleich bis auf Schlagbolzen. Lauf schwach matt. Gabelstück einer langen P.08, linksseitig gemarkt "S" im Kreis für Simson, rechts div. kaiserliche Abnahmen, daneben Adler/"HZa..3" und Adler/"63", der Lauf mit "42" für Mauser. Originale Brünierungen aus Zeiten der Überarbeitung, partiell fleckig. Kleinteile gelb angelassen. Nussholzgriffschalen. Vernickeltes Falzmagazin mit Holzboden, Nr. 5564. Zugehörig eine getragene, schwarze Rindsledertasche, Fertigung "Karl Böcker / 1939 / Waldbröl" mit WaA-Abnahme. Nähte und Zugriemen in Ordnung. Erwerbsscheinpflichtig. "9 mm Para, Nr 1667a. Matching numbers except the firing pin. Running slightly dull. P.08 a long fork, marked on the left side "S" in the circle for Simson, right various imperial declines, along with Eagle / "HZA .. 3" and Adler / "63", the term with "42" for Mauser. Original browning from the days of revision, partially stained. Small parts can be yellow. Walnut grips. Nickel magazine with wood flooring, No. 5564th Belonging to a solemn, black leather bag, manufacturing "Karl Böcker / 1939 / Waldbröl with WaA-acceptance. Stitches and traction belt in order. Purchase prescription slip." So sayeth an online translator. Regards, Doug

04-26-2011, 10:12 AM	#8
gerard User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 35 Times in 23 Posts	about the S marking Note that I did not add this sample to accredit or discredit any thesis about the S marking. It was just to make you aware of this new example. To be add to the known listing to date. Nobody knows really where the circle S comes from. An it will probably remain such for long. Mystery is a part of the pleasure.

04-26-2011, 10:33 AM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Thanks Gerard, I think I had seen this luger before. There are several collectors that I know who have been interested in the circle S for many years and we keep each other informed when we come across them. Ed