1914 DWM Artllery

TCguy · 12-15-2011, 06:19 PM

Comparing my 1914 (serial number 6xx) to my 1917 DWM I noticed the front sight on the right pointing away from shooter on the 1914 has a screw with two tiny holes. Is this for windage adjustment? If so what sort of two pronged tool would be available?
Regards Charlie

John D. · 12-15-2011, 06:46 PM

Yep - they are called "fine tune sights" and usually appear with both the front and the rear having that adjustment screw. The tools do show up every once in a while - BUT - as the tool metal is older than you and I added together (probably

), be careful if you use that vintage tool...

Best to you,

John

John D. · 12-15-2011, 06:48 PM

And here is what that tool looks like:

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...ducts_id=16019

Best to you!

John D.

TCguy · 12-15-2011, 07:27 PM

Thanks John,
You have been very helpful....guess I'd better start saving my money to get a correct tool.
Regards Charlie

Ron Wood · 12-15-2011, 08:42 PM

Charlie,
If you wish to get a correct tool, that is great...But may I respectfully request that you do not use it on your 1914 DWM LP08. The adjustment screw has been on the gun for nearly a century, is most likely frozen or at least stubborn, and can be damaged easily even with the correct tool. Your gun is rather scarce and quite valuable. It would be a shame to damage it.

TCguy · 12-15-2011, 09:27 PM

Thanks Ron, I understand its' rarity I don't even shoot it (well once in awhile), and would never attempt to mess with the sights. If I want to shoot I go to Dad's DWM 1917 Artillery. However, from reading this forum I have gleaned there are those who think it too should not be shot. What as a moderator would you advise?
Regards Charlie

Ron Wood · 12-16-2011, 02:34 AM

My gut reaction as a collector is do not shoot any all matching WWI and earlier Luger (or any WWII, but to a lesser degree of concern for me

). I understand the desire to shoot these fabulous firearms...it is built into their design and purpose. But from a collector's point of view, you can only destroy the originality of an example once, there is no going back. If you absolutely must shoot your and your Dad's guns, go with the 1917...it is valuable, but to a much lesser extent than the 1914, and in the worst case, it can be replaced. In all likelihood the 1914 cannot.

Arizona Slim · 12-16-2011, 12:08 PM

If I may add to Ron Woods excellent advice, anyone wishing to take their vintage Luger or any collectible firearm to the range please first take it to a competent Gunsmith that has experience in that particular line of firearms, especially Luger's. There are several very competent and knowledgeable people on this forum that for a relatively small fee will go over your Luger for you and determine weather or not it is safe to shoot. I say this after shooting my 1917 all matching Artillery and causing irreparable damage to the barrel extension. I highly recommend Tom Heller AKA Luger Doc at [email protected] to do the inspection for you, he does excellent work and is a highly respected member of this forum.

Lon

TCguy · 12-16-2011, 12:59 PM

Okay...I hear your both. I have numerous other 9mm to shoot so I will refrain from shooting my two. The DWM 1917 (serial number 94xx) I inherited from Dad and I know he traded into it in 1928...so it has been in our family awhile and I woould not want to destroy it. The 1914 DWM I traded into about 20 years ago (gave up a 4 screw 22 Jet 6 inch with extra 22 cylinder) came with a drum magaizine and wooden buttstock . I believe the buttstock is a repro. When I joined this forum awhile back I did share pictures and information and I do know it is quite rare and in perfect condition. It came from Germany but not until the 50's when a GI traded his German barber out of it.
Charlie
SW Ory-Gun

Norme · 12-16-2011, 01:01 PM

I'd like to echo the advice given above. I suggest you read the enclosed thread from the other forum before shooting any collectible firearm, particularly a rare one like a 1914 DWM Artillery. Regards, Norm

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...ight=artillery

TCguy · 12-16-2011, 01:37 PM

Thanks Norme, I could not log in as I would have had to register to see the pictures. I already spend too much time reading this forum as well as Colts, Smiths and Rugers to add another forum. However I have heard all of you loud and clear ...do not fire pristine Artillery Lugers. When I pass on my kids will know they may look, fondle drool etc. but do not fire their Lugers...
Charlie
Sunny SW Ory-Gun

cirelaw · 12-16-2011, 06:25 PM

My 1917 artillery survived 2 world wars, trench warfare and has gone to far for you to make one mistake or use an incorrect load. It would be disrespecful to even attempt to fire it without a thorough inspection by someone qualified to do so. Last night on 'Sons Of Guns' an artillery was brought in. Before the agreed to fire it they did a full shake down including replacing the fire pin. There are 42 seperate parts, each must work exactly or some one including yourselve the results may be tragic. Please have your wonderfull heirloom be thoroughly check out. You owe it to yourselve and its previous owners, Eric

Ron Wood · 12-17-2011, 03:41 AM

Eric,
I think it would be best to stop with "it would be disrespectful to even attempt to fire it".

A 1914 dated DWM LP08 in unaltered condtion is very scarce and expensive. It would not be wise to chance firing it even after a close inspection.

cirelaw · 12-17-2011, 11:17 AM

Ron I was not advocating that he fire such a magnificent piece. As for my artillery I already decided to take your advice. I am mearly makeing a point with any gun that you are unfamiliar. Personally I decided to look for a replacement shooter artillery. Thats what I meant. Ive never fired any of my 'Goodies" and will not! Sorry for the confusion. TKS

chromeed · 12-26-2011, 09:18 AM

Rear Sight Adjustment Tool
This is from an old post of mine but I added Phone and web site info for McMaster Carr

The screw is a Drilled Spanner head (slang) (Snake-eye) also called Security screws or Tamper resistant screws. They have been used on Elevators for many years. I use them on my gun box lock I got them at McMaster Carr along with a bit. See Pic#2
When I got my Artillery I checked with them but they had no Metric drivers or Spanner screws so I paid $40 for the little brass tool.
After I got my sight adjustment screw working I realized that the screw is the exact same size as a 4-40 Spanner Head screw. (0.094" c/c holes) ***McMaster Carr Atlanta Phone # (404) 346-7000 Internet www.mcmaster.com *** bit price $1.75 or $8.25 for the whole scredriver See Pic#1.
As I see it I can justify paying $38.25 more and waiting a week because the round pins in the brass one are less likely to deform the edges of the holes in the screw and the pins are exactly the same depth as the holes in the screw so the brass flat of the driver rests on top of the screw. (less potential for damage) Also because I played $40 for the tool I was careful not to force it. Most important is that My $1300 Artillary is not damaged and the sight is now adjustable.
If your screw is not stuck the modern tool is OK (It is lower cost) but it sure does not look as neat as the wooden handle one I saw with a price of $500.00 or my little $40.00 brass one. Pic#3

__________________
Ed Reimbold I Need:
For my 1936 P-08 Mag #5800 will trade Mag Al Stamped Blue #6859 k Straight Eagle 655 & #3502 n+St Eagle 63
For my 1917 Artillary Wood Mag #9220 I have #3392 f +

tenbears · 12-26-2011, 02:19 PM

On the subject Sons Of Guns regarding the LPO8. I believe this Luger to be a parts gun due to no proof marks on the right side of the receiver. The Germans did not make short cuts like this even on late war Lugers.

wlyon · 12-26-2011, 02:48 PM

It was not only a parts gun but had been reblued. So much for accuracy on that show.

12-16-2011, 02:34 AM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	My gut reaction as a collector is do not shoot any all matching WWI and earlier Luger (or any WWII, but to a lesser degree of concern for me ). I understand the desire to shoot these fabulous firearms...it is built into their design and purpose. But from a collector's point of view, you can only destroy the originality of an example once, there is no going back. If you absolutely must shoot your and your Dad's guns, go with the 1917...it is valuable, but to a much lesser extent than the 1914, and in the worst case, it can be replaced. In all likelihood the 1914 cannot. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-16-2011, 06:25 PM	#12
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	My 1917 artillery survived 2 world wars, trench warfare and has gone to far for you to make one mistake or use an incorrect load. It would be disrespecful to even attempt to fire it without a thorough inspection by someone qualified to do so. Last night on 'Sons Of Guns' an artillery was brought in. Before the agreed to fire it they did a full shake down including replacing the fire pin. There are 42 seperate parts, each must work exactly or some one including yourselve the results may be tragic. Please have your wonderfull heirloom be thoroughly check out. You owe it to yourselve and its previous owners, Eric Attached Thumbnails

12-17-2011, 03:41 AM	#13
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Eric, I think it would be best to stop with "it would be disrespectful to even attempt to fire it". A 1914 dated DWM LP08 in unaltered condtion is very scarce and expensive. It would not be wise to chance firing it even after a close inspection. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-26-2011, 09:18 AM	#15
chromeed User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: North Georgia Posts: 81 Thanks: 1 Thanked 27 Times in 9 Posts	Rear Sight Adjustment Tool Rear Sight Adjustment Tool This is from an old post of mine but I added Phone and web site info for McMaster Carr The screw is a Drilled Spanner head (slang) (Snake-eye) also called Security screws or Tamper resistant screws. They have been used on Elevators for many years. I use them on my gun box lock I got them at McMaster Carr along with a bit. See Pic#2 When I got my Artillery I checked with them but they had no Metric drivers or Spanner screws so I paid $40 for the little brass tool. After I got my sight adjustment screw working I realized that the screw is the exact same size as a 4-40 Spanner Head screw. (0.094" c/c holes) *McMaster Carr Atlanta Phone # (404) 346-7000 Internet www.mcmaster.com * bit price $1.75 or $8.25 for the whole scredriver See Pic#1. As I see it I can justify paying $38.25 more and waiting a week because the round pins in the brass one are less likely to deform the edges of the holes in the screw and the pins are exactly the same depth as the holes in the screw so the brass flat of the driver rests on top of the screw. (less potential for damage) Also because I played $40 for the tool I was careful not to force it. Most important is that My $1300 Artillary is not damaged and the sight is now adjustable. If your screw is not stuck the modern tool is OK (It is lower cost) but it sure does not look as neat as the wooden handle one I saw with a price of $500.00 or my little $40.00 brass one. Pic#3 __________________ Ed Reimbold I Need: For my 1936 P-08 Mag #5800 will trade Mag Al Stamped Blue #6859 k Straight Eagle 655 & #3502 n+St Eagle 63 For my 1917 Artillary Wood Mag #9220 I have #3392 f + Attached Images __________________ Ed Reimbold I Need: For my 1936 P-08 Mag #5800 will trade Mag Al Stamped Blue #6859 k Straight Eagle 655 & #3502 n+St Eagle 63 For my 1917 Artillary Wood Mag #9220 I have #3392 f +

12-26-2011, 02:48 PM	#17
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,636 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,559 Times in 955 Posts	It was not only a parts gun but had been reblued. So much for accuracy on that show. __________________ Bill Lyon

12-15-2011, 06:19 PM	#1
TCguy User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: SW Oregon Posts: 22 Thanks: 7 Thanked 4 Times in 1 Post	1914 DWM Artllery Comparing my 1914 (serial number 6xx) to my 1917 DWM I noticed the front sight on the right pointing away from shooter on the 1914 has a screw with two tiny holes. Is this for windage adjustment? If so what sort of two pronged tool would be available? Regards Charlie

12-15-2011, 06:46 PM	#2
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 477 Thanked 515 Times in 128 Posts	Yep - they are called "fine tune sights" and usually appear with both the front and the rear having that adjustment screw. The tools do show up every once in a while - BUT - as the tool metal is older than you and I added together (probably ), be careful if you use that vintage tool... Best to you, John

12-15-2011, 06:48 PM	#3
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 477 Thanked 515 Times in 128 Posts	And here is what that tool looks like: http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...ducts_id=16019 Best to you! John D.

12-15-2011, 07:27 PM	#4
TCguy User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: SW Oregon Posts: 22 Thanks: 7 Thanked 4 Times in 1 Post	Thanks John, You have been very helpful....guess I'd better start saving my money to get a correct tool. Regards Charlie

12-15-2011, 08:42 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Charlie, If you wish to get a correct tool, that is great...But may I respectfully request that you do not use it on your 1914 DWM LP08. The adjustment screw has been on the gun for nearly a century, is most likely frozen or at least stubborn, and can be damaged easily even with the correct tool. Your gun is rather scarce and quite valuable. It would be a shame to damage it. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-15-2011, 09:27 PM	#6
TCguy User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: SW Oregon Posts: 22 Thanks: 7 Thanked 4 Times in 1 Post	Thanks Ron, I understand its' rarity I don't even shoot it (well once in awhile), and would never attempt to mess with the sights. If I want to shoot I go to Dad's DWM 1917 Artillery. However, from reading this forum I have gleaned there are those who think it too should not be shot. What as a moderator would you advise? Regards Charlie

12-16-2011, 12:08 PM	#8
Arizona Slim Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 706 Thanks: 1,026 Thanked 409 Times in 225 Posts	If I may add to Ron Woods excellent advice, anyone wishing to take their vintage Luger or any collectible firearm to the range please first take it to a competent Gunsmith that has experience in that particular line of firearms, especially Luger's. There are several very competent and knowledgeable people on this forum that for a relatively small fee will go over your Luger for you and determine weather or not it is safe to shoot. I say this after shooting my 1917 all matching Artillery and causing irreparable damage to the barrel extension. I highly recommend Tom Heller AKA Luger Doc at [email protected] to do the inspection for you, he does excellent work and is a highly respected member of this forum. Lon

12-16-2011, 12:59 PM	#9
TCguy User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: SW Oregon Posts: 22 Thanks: 7 Thanked 4 Times in 1 Post	Okay...I hear your both. I have numerous other 9mm to shoot so I will refrain from shooting my two. The DWM 1917 (serial number 94xx) I inherited from Dad and I know he traded into it in 1928...so it has been in our family awhile and I woould not want to destroy it. The 1914 DWM I traded into about 20 years ago (gave up a 4 screw 22 Jet 6 inch with extra 22 cylinder) came with a drum magaizine and wooden buttstock . I believe the buttstock is a repro. When I joined this forum awhile back I did share pictures and information and I do know it is quite rare and in perfect condition. It came from Germany but not until the 50's when a GI traded his German barber out of it. Charlie SW Ory-Gun

12-16-2011, 01:01 PM	#10
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	I'd like to echo the advice given above. I suggest you read the enclosed thread from the other forum before shooting any collectible firearm, particularly a rare one like a 1914 DWM Artillery. Regards, Norm http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...ight=artillery

12-16-2011, 01:37 PM	#11
TCguy User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: SW Oregon Posts: 22 Thanks: 7 Thanked 4 Times in 1 Post	Thanks Norme, I could not log in as I would have had to register to see the pictures. I already spend too much time reading this forum as well as Colts, Smiths and Rugers to add another forum. However I have heard all of you loud and clear ...do not fire pristine Artillery Lugers. When I pass on my kids will know they may look, fondle drool etc. but do not fire their Lugers... Charlie Sunny SW Ory-Gun

12-17-2011, 11:17 AM	#14
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Ron I was not advocating that he fire such a magnificent piece. As for my artillery I already decided to take your advice. I am mearly makeing a point with any gun that you are unfamiliar. Personally I decided to look for a replacement shooter artillery. Thats what I meant. Ive never fired any of my 'Goodies" and will not! Sorry for the confusion. TKS

12-26-2011, 02:19 PM	#16
tenbears User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 370 Thanks: 3 Thanked 26 Times in 15 Posts	On the subject Sons Of Guns regarding the LPO8. I believe this Luger to be a parts gun due to no proof marks on the right side of the receiver. The Germans did not make short cuts like this even on late war Lugers.