New WWI Luger, double-date 1918

TheRomanhistorian · 02-06-2012, 06:33 PM

Hello all,

So, thanks again to everyone on the forum for your advice, camaraderie, and help! I just recently ordered, received, and (as of today) picked up my a WWI era Luger from RGuns in very nice condition. I wasn't sure what I was going to get but I ended up with something fairly reasonable though I'm sure I paid a little more than I needed to. It has Erfurt on the toggle numbered 43 (which does not match the rest of the gun, most of which has 203). There is a unit marking but it has been quite liberally Xed out and there is a Russian X (I presume) next to the side plate. From what I can read of the unit marking, it looks as if it is inscribed with: 'P.W. V. (something I can't read) 871.' I think I read 'P.W' somewhere in the Police Luger marking thread, so was this a 9mm pistol reissued to a German police unit after the First World War? I presume it is 9mm but I haven't done the pencil test (no No. 2 pencil handy). The barrel does have barrel dimensions marked at 8,82 so it probably is 9mm. RGuns didn't mention one way or the other.

It is double-dated 1918 (1920) and the finish is mostly gone. Still, it's a nice looking pistol with a lot of the rifling still evident and I didn't see any pits in the bore, there are some very minor pits on the sideplate and on the outside of the barrel but it's cosmetic. The grips themselves seem a little crude, the leading edge of the right grip is chipped away as if it didn't fit and someone whittled that edge down. At any rate, that is how is how it looked when I picked it up from my FFL dealer. I've not done a proper cleaning on it yet but at least the pistol was not covered in grease or Cosmoline. I will take it to the gunsmith to have him check it out but it's practically range ready, I suspect. The magazine is probably not original to the pistol and the serial number is ground off.

I'll get better photos up once my batteries charge. For now here are the best photos I can take with my laptop webcam. My apologies about the graininess and lighting (and that I'm not wearing a proper shirt, hah! I was prepping to clean the pistol.) The Erfurt crown is hard to see in the photo but it is there.

Best,

Michael

lugerholsterrepair · 02-06-2012, 09:08 PM

Michael..Nice! An old warhorse with a lot of history behind it. Keep us posted on how it feeds at the range..

TheRomanhistorian · 02-06-2012, 11:32 PM

Thanks, Jerry! I will keep you chaps informed about the reliability and feeding of the pistol.

Here are some better quality photos of my new Luger (next to its Erma KGP 69 .22LR imitation):

Don M · 05-02-2012, 06:28 PM

Michael, I just stumbled across this thread. The pistol is clearly a Russian capture that was reissued to the East German police. The P.W. in the grip strap marking looks a lot like those on pistols of the Weimar-era Polizeiwehr of Württemberg (HWIS pp. 250-4).

sheepherder · 05-02-2012, 06:43 PM

The toggle train might not be original, but any Luger with an Erfurt marking is desirable to my way of thinking...

Now...Is it just me, or does it seem like there are way more Erfurt toggle trains than there ever were complete Erfurt Lugers???

OK; I'm looking at that gripstrap marking...My WAG is that the 3rd character is a Roman Numeral, and the 4th character is a script/cursive character...

Don M · 05-02-2012, 08:26 PM

After staring at the marking for a while, I'm going out on a limb to guess that the middle x'd out characters were part of an Imperial military marking. After WWI, this marking was partially ground off and the remainder x'd out when the pistol was reissued to the Wuerttembergisches Polizeiwehr and marked P.W.871. This latter marking was probably canceled by the Russians.

Michael, may we know the serial number and suffix of this pistol?

sheepherder · 05-02-2012, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don M

After staring at the marking for a while...

Don - Do the numbers start to dance after staring for a while...???

Don M · 05-03-2012, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

Don - Do the numbers start to dance after staring for a while...???

Actually, they start to march!!!

Douglas Jr. · 05-04-2012, 10:33 AM

Congratulations for your Luger. It sure will get some attention in the range.

Douglas

GySgt1811 · 05-04-2012, 10:59 AM

Dr. Mike,

Congratulations! Nice score!

John

sheepherder · 05-07-2012, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don M

After staring at the marking for a while, I'm going out on a limb to guess that the middle x'd out characters were part of an Imperial military marking...

Don -

Jamese has two pics in one of his albums which bear resemblance to the guesstimated Imperial marking...Not the same character, but it is cursive...

02-06-2012, 06:33 PM	#1
TheRomanhistorian User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 301 Thanks: 170 Thanked 88 Times in 64 Posts	New WWI Luger, double-date 1918 Hello all, So, thanks again to everyone on the forum for your advice, camaraderie, and help! I just recently ordered, received, and (as of today) picked up my a WWI era Luger from RGuns in very nice condition. I wasn't sure what I was going to get but I ended up with something fairly reasonable though I'm sure I paid a little more than I needed to. It has Erfurt on the toggle numbered 43 (which does not match the rest of the gun, most of which has 203). There is a unit marking but it has been quite liberally Xed out and there is a Russian X (I presume) next to the side plate. From what I can read of the unit marking, it looks as if it is inscribed with: 'P.W. V. (something I can't read) 871.' I think I read 'P.W' somewhere in the Police Luger marking thread, so was this a 9mm pistol reissued to a German police unit after the First World War? I presume it is 9mm but I haven't done the pencil test (no No. 2 pencil handy). The barrel does have barrel dimensions marked at 8,82 so it probably is 9mm. RGuns didn't mention one way or the other. It is double-dated 1918 (1920) and the finish is mostly gone. Still, it's a nice looking pistol with a lot of the rifling still evident and I didn't see any pits in the bore, there are some very minor pits on the sideplate and on the outside of the barrel but it's cosmetic. The grips themselves seem a little crude, the leading edge of the right grip is chipped away as if it didn't fit and someone whittled that edge down. At any rate, that is how is how it looked when I picked it up from my FFL dealer. I've not done a proper cleaning on it yet but at least the pistol was not covered in grease or Cosmoline. I will take it to the gunsmith to have him check it out but it's practically range ready, I suspect. The magazine is probably not original to the pistol and the serial number is ground off. I'll get better photos up once my batteries charge. For now here are the best photos I can take with my laptop webcam. My apologies about the graininess and lighting (and that I'm not wearing a proper shirt, hah! I was prepping to clean the pistol.) The Erfurt crown is hard to see in the photo but it is there. Best, Michael Attached Thumbnails Last edited by TheRomanhistorian; 02-06-2012 at 08:01 PM. Reason: Added info.

02-06-2012, 09:08 PM	#2
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Michael..Nice! An old warhorse with a lot of history behind it. Keep us posted on how it feeds at the range.. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

02-06-2012, 11:32 PM	#3
TheRomanhistorian User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 301 Thanks: 170 Thanked 88 Times in 64 Posts	Thanks, Jerry! I will keep you chaps informed about the reliability and feeding of the pistol. Here are some better quality photos of my new Luger (next to its Erma KGP 69 .22LR imitation): Attached Thumbnails

05-02-2012, 06:28 PM	#4
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Michael, I just stumbled across this thread. The pistol is clearly a Russian capture that was reissued to the East German police. The P.W. in the grip strap marking looks a lot like those on pistols of the Weimar-era Polizeiwehr of Württemberg (HWIS pp. 250-4). __________________ Regards, Don [email protected] Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com Last edited by Don M; 05-02-2012 at 06:30 PM. Reason: Add HWIS reference

05-02-2012, 06:43 PM	#5
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	The toggle train might not be original, but any Luger with an Erfurt marking is desirable to my way of thinking... Now...Is it just me, or does it seem like there are way more Erfurt toggle trains than there ever were complete Erfurt Lugers??? OK; I'm looking at that gripstrap marking...My WAG is that the 3rd character is a Roman Numeral, and the 4th character is a script/cursive character... Attached Images __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

05-02-2012, 08:26 PM	#6
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	After staring at the marking for a while, I'm going out on a limb to guess that the middle x'd out characters were part of an Imperial military marking. After WWI, this marking was partially ground off and the remainder x'd out when the pistol was reissued to the Wuerttembergisches Polizeiwehr and marked P.W.871. This latter marking was probably canceled by the Russians. Michael, may we know the serial number and suffix of this pistol? __________________ Regards, Don [email protected] Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

05-04-2012, 10:33 AM	#9
Douglas Jr. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: South America Posts: 948 Thanks: 598 Thanked 584 Times in 254 Posts	Congratulations for your Luger. It sure will get some attention in the range. Douglas

05-04-2012, 10:59 AM	#10
GySgt1811 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Southern Indiana Posts: 237 Thanks: 1,238 Thanked 126 Times in 84 Posts	RGuns Acquisition Dr. Mike, Congratulations! Nice score! John Last edited by GySgt1811; 05-04-2012 at 11:00 AM. Reason: Badd speelling