New member with a Luger project

tater134 · 06-10-2012, 08:18 PM

Hello everyone,

I've been a military weapons collector for several years now and I just recently bought my first Luger. The pistol I purchased is the pretty neglected and ugly looking Erfurt Luger that is in the following photos. I'm trying to decide if it is worth fixing up to use as a shooter or if I should part out whats left of it. Here are a few photos of the pistol showing the condition and the remaining markings.

This last photo shows a problem with the pistol that I have found. The upper receiver will only move back as far as the point shown in the photo so that the toggle can not be opened completely and I'm not sure exactly where it is binding up. If anyone knows how to fix this I would appreciate any information you can give me.

alanint · 06-10-2012, 08:54 PM

It is already a mismatched parts gun as the upper is commercial with at least a partial Erfurt toggle train. The lower may or may not be military, but might also be commercial.

The gun is basically in "relic" condition and not suitable for parting out due to the condition of the metal, (although I've seen Thor work with less). I also would not feel safe shooting this pistol due to the deterioration of the metal and the cost of bringing it back to shooting condition.
I would buy a nice shadow box frame for it and hang it on the wall as a conversation piece.

Edward Tinker · 06-10-2012, 08:58 PM

I pretty much agree, and hopefully you didn't pay a lot for it.

Someone who has spare parts could put it together, as a talking point. I have the parts, as would Doc, but you are looking at $200-$300 to just get it 'correct"...

But its pretty darn rough.

Ed

tater134 · 06-10-2012, 09:15 PM

Thanks for the replies. I paid less than $150 including shipping for the pistol because I figured it must at least be worth that in parts. My gunsmith who has worked on many a Luger over the years didn't seem concerned about the pitting and seemed to think it would make a decent shooter after tracking down the parts.

Honestly the photos do make the pitting look worse than it is but I agree that there has been some serious damage done to the metal. Surprisingly the internals and the upper are actually very smooth and clean and it appears that the left side of the gun and the toggle got the worst of the damage.

Quote:

Someone who has spare parts could put it together, as a talking point. I have the parts, as would Doc, but you are looking at $200-$300 to just get it 'correct"...

But its pretty darn rough.

I don't mind spending a little bit on parts and considering the condition of the pistol I wouldn't need or want anything in top condition. As long as the parts function correctly that's all that matters.

lugerholsterrepair · 06-10-2012, 09:34 PM

Nathan, I have worked up several pistols into shooters worse than this one. One neat thing about restoring it to shooter condition will be the lessons learned..Nothing like taking a Luger down to the last pin and spring to familiarize yourself with one.

How is the bore? Usually the outside can look rough and the inside like new. There are quite a few$$ parts missing though! But since you don't have much in it..

I have one slight concern though and that is..it looks like it may have been in a fire? Maybe not

sheepherder · 06-10-2012, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater134

This last photo shows a problem with the pistol that I have found. The upper receiver will only move back as far as the point shown in the photo so that the toggle can not be opened completely and I'm not sure exactly where it is binding up.

Does it move at all??? The "cannon" assembly should slide right off the frame, since there is nothing holding it on...

If it won't, take the grips off and take more pics so we can see what the coupling link & recoil lever are doing...

lugerholsterrepair · 06-10-2012, 10:11 PM

Rich is correct...The "cannon" assembly should slide right off the frame, since there is nothing holding it on...
Push the toggle down and move the top cannon forward. The only snag you should run into is the toggle hook dragging accross the hold open. Just do it with care in case the holdopen is not into it's well as it should be.

Both of the severly rusted Lugers I made into shooters had to be beaten apart with a wooden dowell and a sledge hammer.

tater134 · 06-11-2012, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Nathan, I have worked up several pistols into shooters worse than this one. One neat thing about restoring it to shooter condition will be the lessons learned..Nothing like taking a Luger down to the last pin and spring to familiarize yourself with one.

The appeal of a project like this one is the learning experience not the resale value of the piece when its done. I've bought many project guns already and most of them came out looking pretty nice when I was done with them. (I was one of the guys buying those awful looking Gew88's that were imported a few years ago and fixing them up) I hate to see older firearms end up in the junk pile if there's still a chance they can be put back into working condition.

Quote:

How is the bore? Usually the outside can look rough and the inside like new. There are quite a few$$ parts missing though! But since you don't have much in it..

The bore is pretty cruddy looking. I may pick up a new barrel since Sarco has them for $89.95. There is a parts dealer near me that may have some decent used ones cheaper than that so I may give him a call tomorrow to see what hes got.

Quote:

I have one slight concern though and that is..it looks like it may have been in a fire? Maybe not

The story I got with the gun was that it sat in water for awhile which caused the pitting in the photos. This pistol does still have some original bluing in some areas that were hidden (under the toggle) and I would think a fire gun would have no finish at all since all the fire salvaged guns I've come across were extremely rusted because of the affects of the heat.

tater134 · 06-11-2012, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Does it move at all??? The "cannon" assembly should slide right off the frame, since there is nothing holding it on...

If it won't, take the grips off and take more pics so we can see what the coupling link & recoil lever are doing...

I managed to fix the problem with the upper tonight. There was a small burr on the front of the rail just behind the barrel the was preventing the upper assembly from sliding backwards. After a few careful strokes with a file everything is working as it should.

cdmech · 06-11-2012, 08:27 PM

I'm extremely jealous of your $150 Luger. If it were mine, I would gladly spend the money on parts to complete it--if you don't find anything else wrong to prevent it from being a shooter.
I like fixing up other people's discarded broken toys.
Marc

mrerick · 06-11-2012, 10:51 PM

Nathan,

Something to consider... Do you know how it got into that condition? If it was in a fire, some of the metal could have structurally changed making it unsafe to shoot.

Marc

cdmech · 06-11-2012, 11:06 PM

Look what $100 bucks buys...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-ORIGINAL...item3cc72ca6eb
Yours is mint!
Marc

tater134 · 06-12-2012, 01:34 AM

Thank you for the replies everyone. I spent a few hours working on the frame and some other parts this afternoon and I made a little bit of progress. The following photos are a bit washed out due to the lighting but you should be able to see some changes.

Ron Wood · 06-12-2012, 01:43 AM

You are raising your "Frankenluger" from the dead...good for you!

tater134 · 06-12-2012, 09:21 AM

Quote:

You are raising your "Frankenluger" from the dead...good for you!

I'm going to try to clean up as much of the damage as possible without removing too much metal. A good amount of the pitting is very shallow and can be removed but there are a few spots that are just too deep to do anything with besides having them welded which is beyond my skill level. So the gun won't look like new but it should look a heck of a lot better when I'm finished.

Today I'm going to take a drive over to a gun parts store near me to pick up a few parts so we'll see what I come back with.

padredan · 06-12-2012, 10:28 AM

looking good. steel wool and effort work wonders

lugerholsterrepair · 06-12-2012, 12:05 PM

Looking good! I have done several of these..I have a soft wire brush on a drill clamped onto a vice. Does a good job of knocking off rust. I have not tried it but I hear muriatic acid does a good job of getting into pits and crevices you can't get to any other way. Eats up bad metal but not good.
You should have fun with this project! Keep posting..Always interested to see how it's coming.

Douglas Jr. · 06-12-2012, 12:22 PM

Welcome to the forum!
I really enjoy this kind of project.
I'll be following your efforts closely. Keep posting!

Douglas

alanint · 06-12-2012, 12:47 PM

Since you are going to refinish, I would suggest "gun kote" or other similar oven cured finish, which fills in uneven surfaces to an extent, giving a much smoother finish, (be careful of buildup on all bearing surfaces).
Another option would be to nickel!

glock30 · 06-12-2012, 03:31 PM

Fix her up and get her running! Nothing a sear and spring set won't fix. I have a standard recoil spring here, and a striker spring for ya and striker if you need it. I have had pitting worse than that on my Spreewerke P-38 and it shot great. Get it up and running, you'll love it.

06-10-2012, 08:18 PM	#1
tater134 User Join Date: May 2012 Location: NE, PA Posts: 18 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	New member with a Luger project Hello everyone, I've been a military weapons collector for several years now and I just recently bought my first Luger. The pistol I purchased is the pretty neglected and ugly looking Erfurt Luger that is in the following photos. I'm trying to decide if it is worth fixing up to use as a shooter or if I should part out whats left of it. Here are a few photos of the pistol showing the condition and the remaining markings. This last photo shows a problem with the pistol that I have found. The upper receiver will only move back as far as the point shown in the photo so that the toggle can not be opened completely and I'm not sure exactly where it is binding up. If anyone knows how to fix this I would appreciate any information you can give me.

06-10-2012, 08:58 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	I pretty much agree, and hopefully you didn't pay a lot for it. Someone who has spare parts could put it together, as a talking point. I have the parts, as would Doc, but you are looking at $200-$300 to just get it 'correct"... But its pretty darn rough. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-10-2012, 09:34 PM	#5
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Nathan, I have worked up several pistols into shooters worse than this one. One neat thing about restoring it to shooter condition will be the lessons learned..Nothing like taking a Luger down to the last pin and spring to familiarize yourself with one. How is the bore? Usually the outside can look rough and the inside like new. There are quite a few$$ parts missing though! But since you don't have much in it.. I have one slight concern though and that is..it looks like it may have been in a fire? Maybe not __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

06-10-2012, 10:11 PM	#7
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Rich is correct...The "cannon" assembly should slide right off the frame, since there is nothing holding it on... Push the toggle down and move the top cannon forward. The only snag you should run into is the toggle hook dragging accross the hold open. Just do it with care in case the holdopen is not into it's well as it should be. Both of the severly rusted Lugers I made into shooters had to be beaten apart with a wooden dowell and a sledge hammer. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

06-11-2012, 10:51 PM	#11
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Nathan, Something to consider... Do you know how it got into that condition? If it was in a fire, some of the metal could have structurally changed making it unsafe to shoot. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

06-10-2012, 08:54 PM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	It is already a mismatched parts gun as the upper is commercial with at least a partial Erfurt toggle train. The lower may or may not be military, but might also be commercial. The gun is basically in "relic" condition and not suitable for parting out due to the condition of the metal, (although I've seen Thor work with less). I also would not feel safe shooting this pistol due to the deterioration of the metal and the cost of bringing it back to shooting condition. I would buy a nice shadow box frame for it and hang it on the wall as a conversation piece.

06-11-2012, 08:27 PM	#10
cdmech User Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 218 Thanks: 87 Thanked 134 Times in 55 Posts	I'm extremely jealous of your $150 Luger. If it were mine, I would gladly spend the money on parts to complete it--if you don't find anything else wrong to prevent it from being a shooter. I like fixing up other people's discarded broken toys. Marc

06-11-2012, 11:06 PM	#12
cdmech User Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 218 Thanks: 87 Thanked 134 Times in 55 Posts	Look what $100 bucks buys... http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-ORIGINAL...item3cc72ca6eb Yours is mint! Marc

06-12-2012, 01:34 AM	#13
tater134 User Join Date: May 2012 Location: NE, PA Posts: 18 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you for the replies everyone. I spent a few hours working on the frame and some other parts this afternoon and I made a little bit of progress. The following photos are a bit washed out due to the lighting but you should be able to see some changes.

06-12-2012, 01:43 AM	#14
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	You are raising your "Frankenluger" from the dead...good for you! __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-12-2012, 10:28 AM	#16
padredan User Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: louisiana Now, but from the Rebublic of Texas Posts: 937 Thanks: 429 Thanked 316 Times in 182 Posts	looking good. steel wool and effort work wonders __________________ In this world nothing is free, except the grace of God

06-12-2012, 12:05 PM	#17
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Looking good! I have done several of these..I have a soft wire brush on a drill clamped onto a vice. Does a good job of knocking off rust. I have not tried it but I hear muriatic acid does a good job of getting into pits and crevices you can't get to any other way. Eats up bad metal but not good. You should have fun with this project! Keep posting..Always interested to see how it's coming. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

06-12-2012, 12:22 PM	#18
Douglas Jr. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: South America Posts: 948 Thanks: 598 Thanked 584 Times in 254 Posts	Welcome to the forum! I really enjoy this kind of project. I'll be following your efforts closely. Keep posting! Douglas

06-12-2012, 12:47 PM	#19
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Since you are going to refinish, I would suggest "gun kote" or other similar oven cured finish, which fills in uneven surfaces to an extent, giving a much smoother finish, (be careful of buildup on all bearing surfaces). Another option would be to nickel!

06-12-2012, 03:31 PM	#20
glock30 User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Obama LAND Posts: 206 Thanks: 18 Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts	Fix her up and get her running! Nothing a sear and spring set won't fix. I have a standard recoil spring here, and a striker spring for ya and striker if you need it. I have had pitting worse than that on my Spreewerke P-38 and it shot great. Get it up and running, you'll love it.