A Possible "Deaths Head" Luger Explanation

Mauser720 · 09-30-2012, 10:39 PM

I am currently watching a BBC documentary on World War I. In the second episode of the series, it points out that that Crown Prince of Germany had his own regiment, and that the emblem, or insignia for this regiment was the "Deaths Head." In the documentary it showed a picture of him with such an emblem on his hat. Perhaps this topic has been address somewhere else on this forum; however, I thought I would share this information with those who might be interested. And I am including a small picture of Crown Prince Friedrich Wilhelm. Perhaps this information explains the origin of the Deaths Head Luger.

alanint · 09-30-2012, 10:51 PM

We have discussed the Death's Head regiments at length here in the past. Ron even has an original Death's Head Busby, just like Von Mackesen wore.

The symbol was well known throughout WW1 and post WW1 Germany. The real issue is how many, if any were ever applied to pistols in that immediate post war era.

Ron Wood · 09-30-2012, 11:32 PM

Neat photo Ron. Crown Prince Wilhelm was the honorary "commander" of the 1st Leib Hussars and his sister Victoria Luise was the honorary commander of the 2nd Leib Hussars. Both units were legendary and actually under the command of Feld Marshall August von Mackensen. Unfortunately there is no link whatsoever to either of these units and the "Deathead Luger"...I wish there was.

Mauser720 · 10-01-2012, 10:38 AM

Ron, thank you for the great pictures, expecially the one of the Crown Princess.

I did notice that these pictures do not account for the little "S" laying on its side underneath the skull - as seen on some examples.

Has convincing evidence been found that these Lugers were definitely not in use in these units, or is it merely a lack of any evidence that precludes us from making the association?

Ron Wood · 10-01-2012, 10:56 AM

Ron,
The lazy "S" is an enigma and the closest to logical explanation that I have heard is that it represents the laydown pattern of a flamethrower. A few Freikorps Flammenwerfer units had a skull and crossbones insignia.
There is no evidence that any Leib Hussar units had DH marked Lugers. I have only encountered two Lugers with Leib Hussar grip strap markings and they did not have any chamber insignia.
Cheers,
Other Ron

alanint · 10-01-2012, 02:04 PM

Could the little "S" be a stylized attempt at the crossed bones? That's what it always looked like to me.

Ron Wood · 10-01-2012, 03:31 PM

I don't think so. The skull already has bones crossed behind it and the lazy S is above the skull.

ithacaartist · 10-03-2012, 09:43 AM

Could it be a stylized halo?

pitsword · 10-03-2012, 03:45 PM

Wonder why only one bone? I think the twist is a strand of hair.

09-30-2012, 10:39 PM	#1
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	A Possible "Deaths Head" Luger Explanation I am currently watching a BBC documentary on World War I. In the second episode of the series, it points out that that Crown Prince of Germany had his own regiment, and that the emblem, or insignia for this regiment was the "Deaths Head." In the documentary it showed a picture of him with such an emblem on his hat. Perhaps this topic has been address somewhere else on this forum; however, I thought I would share this information with those who might be interested. And I am including a small picture of Crown Prince Friedrich Wilhelm. Perhaps this information explains the origin of the Deaths Head Luger. Attached Images __________________ Mauser720 - Ron "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it." Last edited by Mauser720; 09-30-2012 at 10:41 PM. Reason: To Correct Spelling

09-30-2012, 11:32 PM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Neat photo Ron. Crown Prince Wilhelm was the honorary "commander" of the 1st Leib Hussars and his sister Victoria Luise was the honorary commander of the 2nd Leib Hussars. Both units were legendary and actually under the command of Feld Marshall August von Mackensen. Unfortunately there is no link whatsoever to either of these units and the "Deathead Luger"...I wish there was. Attached Thumbnails __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-01-2012, 10:38 AM	#4
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	Ron, thank you for the great pictures, expecially the one of the Crown Princess. I did notice that these pictures do not account for the little "S" laying on its side underneath the skull - as seen on some examples. Has convincing evidence been found that these Lugers were definitely not in use in these units, or is it merely a lack of any evidence that precludes us from making the association? __________________ Mauser720 - Ron "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."

10-01-2012, 10:56 AM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Ron, The lazy "S" is an enigma and the closest to logical explanation that I have heard is that it represents the laydown pattern of a flamethrower. A few Freikorps Flammenwerfer units had a skull and crossbones insignia. There is no evidence that any Leib Hussar units had DH marked Lugers. I have only encountered two Lugers with Leib Hussar grip strap markings and they did not have any chamber insignia. Cheers, Other Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-01-2012, 03:31 PM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	I don't think so. The skull already has bones crossed behind it and the lazy S is above the skull. Attached Thumbnails __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-30-2012, 10:51 PM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	We have discussed the Death's Head regiments at length here in the past. Ron even has an original Death's Head Busby, just like Von Mackesen wore. The symbol was well known throughout WW1 and post WW1 Germany. The real issue is how many, if any were ever applied to pistols in that immediate post war era.

10-01-2012, 02:04 PM	#6
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Could the little "S" be a stylized attempt at the crossed bones? That's what it always looked like to me.

10-03-2012, 09:43 AM	#8
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,347 Thanks: 7,285 Thanked 2,579 Times in 1,366 Posts	Could it be a stylized halo? __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

10-03-2012, 03:45 PM	#9
pitsword User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 459 Thanks: 3,964 Thanked 103 Times in 83 Posts	Wonder why only one bone? I think the twist is a strand of hair.