What ammo?

[Brodie]

Hi

I am useing now for my luger 140grs subsonic, now ican get 150grs subsonic
Is this bad for the luger or not its just 10grs but want to be sure if its not destroying my luger

Thanks

[Curly1]

Welcome to the forum


Most shoot 115gr, with Winchester white box being the prefered brand.

[Brodie]

This is what i use at the moment

[kzullick]

Im no expert, but I would be hesitant on shooting modern hi-power ammunition in older weapons. Todays powder charges vs 70-100+ year old steel is a disaster waiting to happen. I would stick to the white box Winchester.

[Brodie]

We don,t have that here in Holland

[rhuff]

Will your Luger cycle reliably with sub-sonic loads? I would try to find a lighter bullet weight....something like 115-124gr if possible. I don't have any idea what ammo is and is not available to you in Holland.

[Vlim]

I shot Winchester White Box in the Netherlands for almost 3 years It's around.

I also used Sellier & Bellot 124gr 9x19 for more than 5 years, without problems. The 145gr will work and cycle ok, just shoots a little low.

Any shot you take with your luger can possibly kill it. So if you want to be safe, don't shoot it.

[singleshotman]

I've shot rifles and handguns dating to 1870's and never broke a part yet Oh, well i suppose there is always a first time.Are you saying that the steel used by american makers of firearms was better than German steel, i mean everyone with a brain has heard of Krupp steel, its world famous? Althrough Krupp made there money on railway supplies, not cannon or armor plate.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by singleshotman

I've shot rifles and handguns dating to 1870's and never broke a part yet Oh, well i suppose there is always a first time.Are you saying that the steel used by american makers of firearms was better than German steel, i mean everyone with a brain has heard of Krupp steel, its world famous? Althrough Krupp made there money on railway supplies, not cannon or armor plate.

Not so much, I think, a matter of German steel v. American steel as it is a passage of time and the improvements in alloy design and technology. Some aficionados here prefer 40's vintage Mauser P08s for shooting, the theory being that the steel they're made from is a little tougher and resilient than earlier alloy formulae. If I'm not mistaken, the earliest Lugers were constructed using Sheffield steel imported from Britain. I've been informed that steel changes properties over time and use; an engine block is supposed to harden somewhat after years of use. If this is true, it is probable that the alloys used in Lugers would behave the same after repeated heating and cooling--and physical shock--and harden up by some increment. This would result in parts that are more brittle than when they left the factory. If they become brittle enough, there could be one round that is the "straw on the camel's back" that results in a broken extractor, breech block, or other component, under the stress of that shot.

It's similar to a collectible auto--if used as a "driver" there is a risk, every time, of accident or breakdown. But the temptation to put one into service is ever-present. And the advice is the same: It's yours to do with what you wish. For your own future sanity's sake, understand the risks involved before you make that decision!

[Sieger]

Hi:

Now why would DWM feel the need to import steel from England, as the Germans were more than capable of making good steel?

Is there any proof of this?

Sieger

[Vlim]

Sieger:

Well documented, even. Sir Joseph Jonas, the chairman of the Sheffield Steel Company, was even convicted during WW1 on charges of espionage for Germany. He was accused of leaking information about certain British arms firms to a friend in Germany, who happened to be DWM's manager, Paul von Gontard.

Paul Mauser also preferred Sheffield steel above German steel, as the quality was just better. He also had a good, longstanding and friendly relationship with Jonas, who was a German jew by origin, but moved to England in the 1890s where he set up his steel business.

Jonas was stripped of his orders and titles as a result of the 1914 scandal, which was basically just a ploy to get him out of the way. He was accused of giving information about Vickers, but when you consider that members of the board of Vickers were also members of the boards of DWM and Loewe, it was normal for these guys to share information about their cooperation.

Another interesting fact is that DWM, for a long time, ordered their barrels from Böhler, who were an Austrian company.

[Sieger]

Vlim:

Are there any records as to when this practice ended?

This sounds more like an interlocking directorate decision rather than any decision based on verifiable facts as to "quality" of materal purchased.

Sieger

[RAY1946]

What a cool thread! German steel vs. British steel vs. Austrian steel; I guess now I am completely confused!

When I bought my two 29/70's(1 in 9mm and the other in 7.65mm) a little over a year ago, I did so with the thought that because they were of recent manufacture they were very probably built of alloys that were far superior to the old WW1 and WW2 Luger alloys. Is this a correct assumption?

I bought my pistols to shoot! Am I wrong in assuming that these "late" Lugers are as safe or safer to shoot than the old WW1 and WW2 wartime Lugers?...........................

[rhuff]

I, personally, would consider modern steel to be far superior to the steel produced in the early to mid 1940s. The production equipment and monitoring systems, plus the quality control has progressed markedly over the years. I do not hesitate to shoot my 06/73 Mauser Parabellum in 9mm.

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by rhuff

I, personally, would consider modern steel to be far superior to the steel produced in the early to mid 1940s. The production equipment and monitoring systems, plus the quality control has progressed markedly over the years. I do not hesitate to shoot my 06/73 Mauser Parabellum in 9mm.

Hi,

My question would be whether the original steels were adequate to their intended usage?

The answer is, obviously, yes, when ammo of the correct formula is used in the various period pistols.

Overloaded ammo is, in my opinion, the main cause of Luger parts failure, not some mythical weakness in the original steels used, as hardened with the passage of time. For instance, the current NATO round is loaded some 17% hotter than the standard German Army round of WWI. Firing ammo so overloaded, on a regular basis, through a Luger will, indeed, cause parts failure!!!

Sieger

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by rhuff

I, personally, would consider modern steel to be far superior to the steel produced in the early to mid 1940s. The production equipment and monitoring systems, plus the quality control has progressed markedly over the years. I do not hesitate to shoot my 06/73 Mauser Parabellum in 9mm.

Hi,

I believe I've read here that some of the parts of the Mauser Parabellum series of the 1970's were of cast steel not forged steel.

Sieger

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by Vlim

I shot Winchester White Box in the Netherlands for almost 3 years It's around.

I also used Sellier & Bellot 124gr 9x19 for more than 5 years, without problems. The 145gr will work and cycle ok, just shoots a little low.

Any shot you take with your luger can possibly kill it. So if you want to be safe, don't shoot it.

Hi,

I would think the 145 gr. stuff would cause breach block slap to the back of the frame, as the original springs were timed for 115 to 123 gr. projectiles. My Lugers will not properly cycle with anything over 130 grs.

Sieger

[rhuff]

Originally Posted by Sieger

Hi,

I believe I've read here that some of the parts of the Mauser Parabellum series of the 1970's were of cast steel not forged steel.

Sieger

Many of the modern handgun have parts that are cast steel and MIM, and seem to be holding up well to regular, self defense, and +P loads. It is just better quality material, in my way of thinking, compared to the materials(steels) of the early and mid 20th Century.