most WANTED Luger 08 ever!!??

Flemming · 03-05-2013, 04:23 PM

although I own several interesting firearms, I dont consider me to be a collector. A while ago I decided to buy a 08. The most fascinating gun ever built!!!!
When browsing the web for my "perfect" 08 I found this:

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/firear...l-08-a-253136/

This guys have no idea about the importance of their thread.

The hunt is on.

alanint · 03-05-2013, 06:42 PM

WOW,

So if anybody has Erfurt Luger, chamber dated 1918, serial number 6901q, there is provenance that it was issued to Hitler by the Army for the purpose of protection while spying on the nacent Nazi Party for them!!!

Amazing what one still learns.

Nomadr · 03-05-2013, 09:40 PM

I'm sure you will see a few out there now!

Bob

charly239 · 03-06-2013, 07:42 AM

I am sure too, Perhaps we find now Görings Erfurt Arty

😜

Fazer · 03-06-2013, 09:21 AM

Well I've got 2 of them, or I will do by tommarrow afternoon. So I wll have a spare if anyone wants to buy one

Sieger · 03-07-2013, 04:29 AM

Hi All:

This looks like a permit to carry a pistol, not an Army issue certificate.

Also, this signature looks like a later Hitler signature.

I've seen a copy of a report he gave his surperiors, in this time frame, and he signed his complete name in legible longhand, not initials.

Issues?

Sieger

Flemming · 03-15-2013, 07:31 AM

new reply, raising the issue on warrelics.eu

http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-w...08-a-253136-2/

looks like an authentic signature to me

Flemming · 08-03-2013, 08:08 AM

The idea intrigued me.

I compared some signatures and made contact with Jevgeny in Russia (the guy who started the tread). Seems to be a absolutely serious historian in his 80s
For me, everything looks real.

I offer $ 500 for the Note which leads me to this weapon.

Please leave a PM.

Ian

alvin · 08-03-2013, 08:58 AM

Watched a youtube historical video recently, talking about treasure buried by an ancient bandit king about 400 years ago. There was even an ancient rhyme in the past few centuries.... translate into E, it's something like:

"In a place where a stone buffalo sitting next to a stone drum,
Tens of millions taels of gold and silver were buried,
whoever can find the place,
he could easily afford all properties in a metropolitan city."

So, in the past few hundred years, there historians, treasure diggers, bandits, and even a few government agencies, spent lots of effort trying to find the exact place. And, indeed, there were "treasure map" floating up occasionally from time to time.

alvin · 08-03-2013, 09:34 AM

On the treasure story....

Back just a few years ago, bridge construction workers digged out a rotten wood trunk like container from the bed of a big river. It's broken and workers found seven ancient 50-tael silver bars inside. So this ignited the old interest on that story which has not been hot for long long time. Historians guessed the treasure was buried deep under the river (because history document recorded the king blocked the river once, did something unrecorded, so there was such a guess), this recent event offered them an evidence, but the river is big and the exact location is unknown.

lugerholsterrepair · 08-03-2013, 02:35 PM

I have in my records I parted out this Luger about a year ago! Some idiot scratched AH in the grips..It had to go..

Geo99 · 08-04-2013, 02:51 AM

This has nothing to do with Lugers, but ... I am an amateur graphologist.

I have never seen Hitler's signature before but I am surprised at this signature. If I had seen this in 1934 or 1944 I would have immediately said this person was doomed lead the Germans to failure. This is a signature of a person who is -
1. very emotional, who makes decisions based on emotion rather than logic.
2. a person with tendency to sabotage themselves - the writing appears stable then plummets into the ground towards the end. At the same time, the writing indicates a person who is becoming more emotional, to the extreme.
3. a pessimist.
4. In 1919, he shows decent amount of self-esteem. By 1934, his self esteem has dropped considerably (he does not believe he deserves to succeed), although he shows a bigger ego and a higher opinion of himself than in 1919 (see the large "H"). By 1944, his signature is rushed and he does not even try to maintain balance - his self esteem is in the toilet, and he plunges straight down from the start of the last name to the end - the letters are smashed together, indistinguishable, indicating he's showing little respect for himself or others.
5. not thinking of the future (by 1944).
6. by 1945, it seems he just wants to disappear - no more grandiose plans. This is the signature of a man who does not want to draw attention.

This opinion is not based on any knowledge of history, but simply an analysis of the handwriting. But it's interesting, viewed through the lens of the history we know now.

- Geo

DavidJayUden · 08-04-2013, 09:22 AM

And knowing how things turned out probably doesn't hurt the tea leaves business...
dju

ithacaartist · 08-05-2013, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

And knowing how things turned out probably doesn't hurt the tea leaves business...
dju

Agreed. It is called retro-fitting, "cherry picking", or confirmation bias. It is difficult to imagine, given the name of the subject, how this could be overcome. Sorry, but graphology is quite squishy--as is polygraphy--because of the need for an operator to make interpretations. From http://www.skepdic.com/graphol.html

Quote:

Graphologists believe such details can reveal as much about a person as astrology , palm reading, psychometry, rumpology, or the Myers-Briggs personality type indicator. However, there is no evidence that the unconscious mind is a reservoir of truth about a person, much less that graphology provides a gateway to that reservoir.

I agree that one could extract as much real meaning from these analyses as the other woo listed in the quote. Guess how much. Sorry, don't mean to be unkind about someone's hobby interests, but "Just the facts, Ma'am."

Ron Wood · 08-05-2013, 12:11 PM

"Just the facts, Ma'am"...thank you Joe Friday.

Geo99 · 08-05-2013, 07:51 PM

Next thing you're gonna tell me is Jerry really didn't have Hitler's Luger!

OK, you got me. I don't know if graphology works or not, it's just for fun. But when I looked at the letter and signatures, I had one of those "wow, look at that" moments. I was surprised at the correlation between the signature and what the book says. Maybe it's coincidence - or not (wooooo - scary noise).

Just for the record, I don't have a business, I don't profit off the weak, and I don't believe in readings, astrology , palm reading, rumpology (that's a joke, right?), divining, tea leaves, tarot cards, the occult, flying saucers, Area 51, the loch ness monster, little green men, our government, and most lawyers I know.

All kidding aside, what do you think this 1918 Erfurt 6901q would go for (in case I come across it)?

- Geo

ithacaartist · 08-06-2013, 08:39 AM

Depends on condition!

03-05-2013, 04:23 PM	#1
Flemming New User Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	most WANTED Luger 08 ever!!?? although I own several interesting firearms, I dont consider me to be a collector. A while ago I decided to buy a 08. The most fascinating gun ever built!!!! When browsing the web for my "perfect" 08 I found this: http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/firear...l-08-a-253136/ This guys have no idea about the importance of their thread. The hunt is on.

08-03-2013, 02:35 PM	#11
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	I have in my records I parted out this Luger about a year ago! Some idiot scratched AH in the grips..It had to go.. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-05-2013, 12:11 PM	#15
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	"Just the facts, Ma'am"...thank you Joe Friday. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

08-06-2013, 08:39 AM	#17
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,347 Thanks: 7,285 Thanked 2,579 Times in 1,366 Posts	Depends on condition! __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

03-05-2013, 06:42 PM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	WOW, So if anybody has Erfurt Luger, chamber dated 1918, serial number 6901q, there is provenance that it was issued to Hitler by the Army for the purpose of protection while spying on the nacent Nazi Party for them!!! Amazing what one still learns.

03-05-2013, 09:40 PM	#3
Nomadr Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 276 Thanks: 16 Thanked 28 Times in 22 Posts	I'm sure you will see a few out there now! Bob

03-06-2013, 07:42 AM	#4
charly239 User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Europe Posts: 211 Thanks: 16 Thanked 10 Times in 2 Posts	I am sure too, Perhaps we find now Görings Erfurt Arty 😜

03-06-2013, 09:21 AM	#5
Fazer Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Perth, West Oz Posts: 93 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Well I've got 2 of them, or I will do by tommarrow afternoon. So I wll have a spare if anyone wants to buy one

03-07-2013, 04:29 AM	#6
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	Hi All: This looks like a permit to carry a pistol, not an Army issue certificate. Also, this signature looks like a later Hitler signature. I've seen a copy of a report he gave his surperiors, in this time frame, and he signed his complete name in legible longhand, not initials. Issues? Sieger

03-15-2013, 07:31 AM	#7
Flemming New User Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	new reply, raising the issue on warrelics.eu http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-w...08-a-253136-2/ looks like an authentic signature to me

08-03-2013, 08:08 AM	#8
Flemming New User Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The idea intrigued me. I compared some signatures and made contact with Jevgeny in Russia (the guy who started the tread). Seems to be a absolutely serious historian in his 80s For me, everything looks real. I offer $ 500 for the Note which leads me to this weapon. Please leave a PM. Ian

08-03-2013, 08:58 AM	#9
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Watched a youtube historical video recently, talking about treasure buried by an ancient bandit king about 400 years ago. There was even an ancient rhyme in the past few centuries.... translate into E, it's something like: "In a place where a stone buffalo sitting next to a stone drum, Tens of millions taels of gold and silver were buried, whoever can find the place, he could easily afford all properties in a metropolitan city." So, in the past few hundred years, there historians, treasure diggers, bandits, and even a few government agencies, spent lots of effort trying to find the exact place. And, indeed, there were "treasure map" floating up occasionally from time to time.

08-03-2013, 09:34 AM	#10
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	On the treasure story.... Back just a few years ago, bridge construction workers digged out a rotten wood trunk like container from the bed of a big river. It's broken and workers found seven ancient 50-tael silver bars inside. So this ignited the old interest on that story which has not been hot for long long time. Historians guessed the treasure was buried deep under the river (because history document recorded the king blocked the river once, did something unrecorded, so there was such a guess), this recent event offered them an evidence, but the river is big and the exact location is unknown.

08-04-2013, 02:51 AM	#12
Geo99 User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Whidbey Island WA Posts: 398 Thanks: 102 Thanked 125 Times in 74 Posts	This has nothing to do with Lugers, but ... I am an amateur graphologist. I have never seen Hitler's signature before but I am surprised at this signature. If I had seen this in 1934 or 1944 I would have immediately said this person was doomed lead the Germans to failure. This is a signature of a person who is - 1. very emotional, who makes decisions based on emotion rather than logic. 2. a person with tendency to sabotage themselves - the writing appears stable then plummets into the ground towards the end. At the same time, the writing indicates a person who is becoming more emotional, to the extreme. 3. a pessimist. 4. In 1919, he shows decent amount of self-esteem. By 1934, his self esteem has dropped considerably (he does not believe he deserves to succeed), although he shows a bigger ego and a higher opinion of himself than in 1919 (see the large "H"). By 1944, his signature is rushed and he does not even try to maintain balance - his self esteem is in the toilet, and he plunges straight down from the start of the last name to the end - the letters are smashed together, indistinguishable, indicating he's showing little respect for himself or others. 5. not thinking of the future (by 1944). 6. by 1945, it seems he just wants to disappear - no more grandiose plans. This is the signature of a man who does not want to draw attention. This opinion is not based on any knowledge of history, but simply an analysis of the handwriting. But it's interesting, viewed through the lens of the history we know now. - Geo

08-04-2013, 09:22 AM	#13
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	And knowing how things turned out probably doesn't hurt the tea leaves business... dju

08-05-2013, 07:51 PM	#16
Geo99 User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Whidbey Island WA Posts: 398 Thanks: 102 Thanked 125 Times in 74 Posts	Next thing you're gonna tell me is Jerry really didn't have Hitler's Luger! OK, you got me. I don't know if graphology works or not, it's just for fun. But when I looked at the letter and signatures, I had one of those "wow, look at that" moments. I was surprised at the correlation between the signature and what the book says. Maybe it's coincidence - or not (wooooo - scary noise). Just for the record, I don't have a business, I don't profit off the weak, and I don't believe in readings, astrology , palm reading, rumpology (that's a joke, right?), divining, tea leaves, tarot cards, the occult, flying saucers, Area 51, the loch ness monster, little green men, our government, and most lawyers I know. All kidding aside, what do you think this 1918 Erfurt 6901q would go for (in case I come across it)? - Geo