Bayonets of Imperial Germany 1871-1918

[cirelaw]

A wonderful and informative site! ~~~Eric http://worldbayonets.com/Bayonet_Ide...2.html#TopPage

[skeeter4206]

Funny you bring up bayonets. I was in books a million last night here near charlotte and I found a book about bayonets that I bought for like 18 bucks I think. I bought a S98/14 bayonet for the Gewehr 98. It has the sawback blade on it, which I didn't know anything about it.

Well come to find out they made two different kinds. One with the sawback and one without. The sawback was made for the pioneers and the other was for the infantry units.

I was curious about the pioneers, what did they do?

[NoncomRetired]

I did some research on S98 bayonet and most sites and authors stated, the sawback was for Pioneers (Engineers) and MG units since both units had to cut away brush and it was issued to NCOs which became a status symbol of their rank. I have one in very nice condition.

Originally Posted by skeeter4206

Funny you bring up bayonets. I was in books a million last night here near charlotte and I found a book about bayonets that I bought for like 18 bucks I think. I bought a S98/14 bayonet for the Gewehr 98. It has the sawback blade on it, which I didn't know anything about it.

Well come to find out they made two different kinds. One with the sawback and one without. The sawback was made for the pioneers and the other was for the infantry units.

I was curious about the pioneers, what did they do?

[kzullick]

Nice Display!

[skeeter4206]

That is a really cool display Ed. Mine don't look that nice, but its that exact style. I paid 40 bucks for it at a flea market. How much do these bayonets really go for?

Im curious about the "F R" markings on the helment. What do they stand for?

[NoncomRetired]

The FR stood for Frederic Rex, Frederick the Great, King of Prussia.

You got a great buy at that price, anywhere from 125.00 to 250.00 with scabbard and I've seen them higher. Many of the sawtooth models had the teeth ground off after the war, Geneva Convention requirement I hear. Not too many survive the war with teeth that were in use after the war that stayed in Germany. Nasty things those teeth.............

Originally Posted by skeeter4206

That is a really cool display Ed. Mine don't look that nice, but its that exact style. I paid 40 bucks for it at a flea market. How much do these bayonets really go for?

Im curious about the "F R" markings on the helment. What do they stand for?

[skeeter4206]

Reading in the bayonet book I got last night said that the sawback was found to be wholly useless as a cutting tool and was later deleted from production, with many pioneer bayonets having the saw back ground off. During WWI Britian made much propaganda of the germans' use of saw backed blades and the injuries they could cause. The british themselves chose to ignore their own previous use of saw back blades.

For those that are interested in bayonets, I got this book I have from books a million for really cheap. It shows pictures and brief details of all bayonets for each nation throughout the years. A total of 256 pages from front to back.

Its called:
BAYONETS
AN ILLUSTRATED HISTORY
BY: MARTIN J. BRAYLEY

I have so many bayonets I know nothing about, so maybe I can find out a little information on them now.

[cirelaw]

I just purched mine. It was his last. I'm sure its available on Amazon~~ I decided to include some sample pages!

[skeeter4206]

Ed, I am curious anout your markings on the backside of the blade. Mine has a "W" over "14" and a crowned gothic letter underneath the W over 14.

I understand that the "W" stands for the Prussian Kaiser Wilhem II. and the gothic letter just an inspection stamp. The book I have about bayonets shows a "W" OVER "06".

I am curious about at what year was the sawbacks fazed out. Mine does have the extended muzzle ring ears. I didn't get a scabbard with it so I don't know which one would have came with it.

I attached a few pics showing mine, which are poor pictures, but you can get the idea. There are signs of corrosion occurring to the blade itself. Is the a way to stop the corrosion without damaging the old look that needs to be desired on this old bayonet.

Attachment 34956

Attachment 34957

Attachment 34958

Attachment 34959

[skeeter4206]

well I tried to download the pics. It doesn't like to download pics from my phone for some reason.

[NoncomRetired]

Mine was made by JH Becker Solingen and has a ser# 2496 on both the blade and the scabbard. I have a crown over a worn off W and a completely worn off date. These bayonets were made by different states and the stamp would depend where such as the state of Bavaria was a state within a state that had agreed alignment with the King of Prussia, same as Saxony and if their model 1898s were made within their state, the stamp would reflect that. Because my state stamp is worn off but since it was made in Solingen, it went to a Prussian regular unit such as a Hessian unit.

My understanding that the british put up such a fuss at the sawback model, that it was put into the Treaty of Versailles that the sawbacks were to be ground off if re-issued to their 100,000 man army allowed by the treaty. You'll still find some WWII sawbacks bayonets but these were special ordered for a presentation duty award. Like the 1889 sawback model was a rank prestigious issued sidearm, so a sawback model K98 was also as a presentation model during WWII. You'll find many model 1898s with the saw top grounded off for re-issue during the Weimar period.
BTW, britian toyed with their own idea of sawbacks.

Came across one today that was going for $175.00, no scabbard and non-sawtooth in not so great condition..

Originally Posted by skeeter4206

Ed, I am curious anout your markings on the backside of the blade. Mine has a "W" over "14" and a crowned gothic letter underneath the W over 14.

I understand that the "W" stands for the Prussian Kaiser Wilhem II. and the gothic letter just an inspection stamp. The book I have about bayonets shows a "W" OVER "06".

I am curious about at what year was the sawbacks fazed out. Mine does have the extended muzzle ring ears. I didn't get a scabbard with it so I don't know which one would have came with it.

I attached a few pics showing mine, which are poor pictures, but you can get the idea. There are signs of corrosion occurring to the blade itself. Is the a way to stop the corrosion without damaging the old look that needs to be desired on this old bayonet.

Attachment 34956

Attachment 34957

Attachment 34958

Attachment 34959

[skeeter4206]

came across one today that was going for $175.00, no scabbard and non-sawtooth in not so great condition..

i was just looking on ebay and they also had some that were as high as $300 i think. But they were in excellent condition. I still havent seen another one on ebay that is made by simson co. And suhl yet.

Yours being, what you think issued to the hessian unit, are you also a collector of the hessian lugers with the h.p. Markings?

[NoncomRetired]

Nope, just used Hessian as an example, it could have been issued to a Bremen or a Baden unit or any "Prussian" unit. Saxony, Bavaria and Wurttemberg had their own military and rulers, they were part of the Prussian confederation which totally dissolved at the end of WWI. They all took their orders from the Kaiser. Any model 1898 made in Saxony, Bavaria or Wurttemberg would have had their own state crown of their monarch and made in their own factory.

Originally Posted by skeeter4206

i was just looking on ebay and they also had some that were as high as $300 i think. But they were in excellent condition. I still havent seen another one on ebay that is made by simson co. And suhl yet.

Yours being, what you think issued to the hessian unit, are you also a collector of the hessian lugers with the h.p. Markings?

[George Anderson]

Originally Posted by NoncomRetired

Any model 1898 made in Saxony, Bavaria or Wurttemberg would have had their own state crown of their monarch and made in their own factory.

Perhaps the majority of bayonettes were made in the city of Solingen from which they were delivered. The Royal acceptance marks were added by the individual kingdoms. Here are a few of my blades.

[NoncomRetired]

Originally Posted by George Anderson

Perhaps the majority of bayonettes were made in the city of Solingen from which they were delivered. The Royal acceptance marks were added by the individual kingdoms. Here are a few of my blades.

I'm sure that happened also, contracts are contracts no matter who fulfilled them. Suhl and Solingen were the two major makers and would continue for years ahead, especially Solingen. The famous Sword of Solingen was traded to a GI for a pack of cigarettes in WWII from an article I read years ago. At that time the city wanted it back. I think they did but not sure.

[skeeter4206]

Not to change subjects on bayonets. But I posted pics of the attached folding knife awhile back. I think it was Ron who commented on it being a cutlery knife of some sort. I used to think it was a bayonet when I was younger. It was given to my father from his father . Its been in the family as far back as I can remember. I have looked and looked over the internet trying to find out something and I still know nothing about it. maybe someone can give some insight on it since we are talking blades.

[NoncomRetired]

Here ya go Skeeter..................as George pointed out, most makers came out of Solingen and Suhl. Here is a list of all the manufacturers and check out the other links for more info.

http://worldbayonets.com/Misc__Pages..._markings.html

[NoncomRetired]

Originally Posted by skeeter4206

Not to change subjects on bayonets. But I posted pics of the attached folding knife awhile back. I think it was Ron who commented on it being a cutlery knife of some sort. I used to think it was a bayonet when I was younger. It was given to my father from his father . Its been in the family as far back as I can remember. I have looked and looked over the internet trying to find out something and I still know nothing about it. maybe someone can give some insight on it since we are talking blades.

Attachment 35010

Attachment 35011

Attachment 35012

Attachment 35013

Attachment 35014

Attachment 35015

Attachment 35016

Skeeter........do a search for 19th century folding bowie knives. Yours is unique that it doesn't fold but retracts back into the handle.

[alanint]

According to the photos, his knive folds, not retracts. The blade is simply much longer than the handle, so when folded, it exposes less of the blade.

I'm not clear on what the practical use of this feature would be.

[Ron Wood]

It is a German hunting knife. It is a compact form of a "Hirschfänger", the typical German forestry cutlass. In the folded configuration it is simply a hunting knife. In the extended (unfolded) configuration it is a short sword ostensibly used to administer the "coupe de grace" to downed game.

Being a folder, it presumably was more compact, easier to carry and less ornate (i.e. practical) than the more ceremonial cutlass.

P.S. Yes, it was me that had commented on this piece of cutlery in the earlier thread.