Snail drums and the law

[mystical_tutor]

I realize that state laws will vary a lot but what is the take so far on how pending laws will affect ownership/sales of the Artillery snail drums?

Gary

[Edward Tinker]

depends on your state

In most states, unless there is a rule on high capacity, it would not be affected?

[DavidJayUden]

Wouldn't they be banned in the "out there" states like NJ, CA, NY?
dju

[alanint]

Yes. There is no "C&R" category for magazines, which is something I would consider presenting to ATF.

[Kitkat041836]

I think that if you have a 32rd snail drum and do not have a loader to go with it it would be very hard to load past the 10rd
compasity law. I would bet I could win this one in a court of law. Because it would still have only a 10rd compasty.
Just my thought.
Thanks,George Fortier

[alanint]

You'd be betting your money on a losing horse. You are talking about the agency who took cardboard and duct tape to cobble together a "sideplate" for those Browning 1919A4 kits that came in, in order to get them to fire more than one round with a single pull of the trigger, in an attempt to classify them as complete "machineguns".

They will have an agent in court with a sledge hammer, if that's what it takes to prosecute you.

[John Sabato]

KitKat,

I am afraid I have to concur with Doug... the issue is capacity, not how many rounds your weak hands might be able to stick into the device... if the BATFE agent manages to get 11 rounds into it with his bare hands, you LOSE big time!

[cirelaw]

Are snail Drums restricted only to artillerys~~~~

[mystical_tutor]

Originally Posted by cirelaw

Are snail Drums restricted only to artillerys~~~~

Well the reason I put it in this part of the forum is because I understand that Artillerys is what they were designed for. If this is a bad choice I hope some mod will move it where it belongs.

So the take is that if my state passes a 15 round capacity law I'm up that well known tributary without the proper means of locomotion.

What I am hearing is that if you already own a HC mag you will be grandfathered in but never be able to sell it. That is what one of the 2d amendment guys told me at the last gun show. He was basing that on what he had heard about what Colorado has in the pipeline.

Sure wish I knew.

Gary

[Edward Tinker]

There is no federal law that states you can not use an artillery drum in a 4 inch luger

Stocks yes, magazines no

[cirelaw]

Awesome! Ed this ones for you!

[Edward Tinker]

Great Eric, I'll send you my address

[mystical_tutor]

Well, one thing that encourages one to use it with a stock in whatever you choose to fire it in is that when you shoot one without a stock it is a strain (at least for me) to hold it straight as the weight of that mag, even half full, really torques the gun.

Gary

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by mystical_tutor

...So the take is that if my state passes a 15 round capacity law I'm up that well known tributary without the proper means of locomotion.

What I am hearing is that if you already own a HC mag you will be grandfathered in but never be able to sell it.

It's wackier than that in NY State; this gives the overview--all the crappy answers--http://www.governor.ny.gov/nysafeact/gun-reform

As you can see, I'm not a candidate for legally owning a snail drum mag. Before this B.S. law, I would have been.

[Jerry]

Glad I moved from NY when the Clintons moved in but not getting off the subject matter.....I LOVE SNAIL DRUM's. and Florida is a good gun/magazine state.

[mystical_tutor]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

There is no federal law that states you can not use an artillery drum in a 4 inch luger

Stocks yes, magazines no

I'm a little slow there Ed. Read the comment and missed half of it. I didn't know that you can not use a stock with a 4" barrel. For my edification can you guide me to where it is? I need to be able to reference that.

Is it worded in such a way that navies with navy stocks and artillerys with artillery stocks are OK or is it more generalized?

Important info I did not know... "ignorance of the law is no excuse"

Gary

[John Sabato]

Originally Posted by mystical_tutor

I'm a little slow there Ed. Read the comment and missed half of it. I didn't know that you can not use a stock with a 4" barrel. For my edification can you guide me to where it is? I need to be able to reference that.

Is it worded in such a way that navies with navy stocks and artillerys with artillery stocks are OK or is it more generalized?

Important info I did not know... "ignorance of the law is no excuse"

Gary

Gary, look up the National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934, read until you find the term "Short Barreled Rifle (SBR)"... Then go to the BATFE (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives) website and see the list of the ONLY versions of pistols that can use a shoulder stock because they are Curios and Relics (C&R) and are exempted from the National Firearms Act.

Putting a shoulder stock on a pistol with less than a 16" barrel, (if it is not on the C&R list) is a federal offense (construction of a short barreled rifle). A $10,000 fine and a Ten Year all expenses paid vacation to a Federal "Resort" facility, and loss of your privilege to own firearms is a big price to pay for ignorance of the law.

Also see: http://www.lugerforum.com/BATF.html

[mystical_tutor]

Thanks John.

I'm still looking for the specific list on their web site as I have not been able to out think their search engine. Found all sorts of stuff to read about though... LOL. The one that rocked my boat though was:

a 9mm Springfield Armory model XD–9 Sub–Compact Luger pistol, with a 16–round magazine.

I'll keep looking. Long ago when I had no internet to speak of (only MILNET) and had to read everything out of pages of stuff in hard copy I was of the understanding that all Lugers over 50 years old with had original shoulder stock lugs were legal with stocks--as the gun itself was a C&R and the stock by itself was not under the restrictions of the provisions. Reading Ed's comment I wondered if the rules had been updated to specify Carbines, Navy and Artillery as the "only" Lugers that could have stocks.
The link you provided to the 1981 letter was interesting as surely a 4" Luger should be just as legal with a stock as a Browning HP.

Bottom line for me though is not how close to the edge of the ice I can skate but how to make sure I'm in the safe zone.

Thanks again

Gary

[John Sabato]

Originally Posted by mystical_tutor

as surely a 4" Luger should be just as legal with a stock as a Browning HP...

Sorry, but it ain't so...
I never said that there was logic in the BATFE policies...

NEVER assume anything where the Federal Government is Concerned...

[mystical_tutor]

Originally Posted by John Sabato

Sorry, but it ain't so...
I never said that there was logic in the BATFE policies...

NEVER assume anything where the Federal Government is Concerned...

I agree 100% and even expand that to most law enforcement agencies.

I loved the Texas concealed weapons ruling that stated one could not have a loaded firearm in their car "unless traveling".

That meant it was OK/not OK depending on the time of day, your race, the mood of the officer or the phase of the moon.