New Member, Need Help on a 1942 byf

pitt1863 · 01-05-2014, 09:42 PM

Hello, I am a new member to the forum. I've collected Civil War items for years, but these weapons are completely new to me. I have a chance to purchase this from a friend. It has been in his family for a very long time. When he said he was ready to sell it i thought it worth doing some research to see if it might be worth owning myself. That research has led me here. From what i can tell the case is not for the gun due to the date, but it is in very good condition. The numbers all match at least all i can see, i don't want to take it apart at the risk of not being able to get it back together. The grips look like they are from a Kreigoff Mauser? The condition looks to be very good, one scratch you can see on the side in the pictures and light wear in the bluing on the high spots that are from case wear. The Clip # does not match, and the wood clip looks like it has a Head brand on it? My main questions would be, what do i have here and what is a fair offer to make for this gun. I don't want to pay the full retail but i do want to be fair to him as he told me to figure out what value is. Any help i would be very thankful for. Thanks to all of you. Jamie

Edward Tinker · 01-05-2014, 09:57 PM

welcome to the forum

The holster does not always match the year of the luger, in fact, that is what collectors want.

You can watch some youtube on disassembly and reassembly of lugers

the magazines (some people get all weird if you call them clips) are very interesting.
The eagle 46 is considered a replacement or provided by / made by Simson - I have eagle 63 magazines that I would trade you and a bit of cash if you get it or some other magazines.
The wood bottom is an early WW1 DWM or Erfurt (I can never remember)

Ed

alanint · 01-05-2014, 10:12 PM

George Anderson may weigh in on these late Kreighoff gripped Mauser pistols...

lugerholsterrepair · 01-05-2014, 10:16 PM

The wood bottom mag has what looks to be an Erfurt proof but no serial number? Somewhat odd but they might have made replacement mags this way?

The pistol looks very nice but there shouldn't be a serial number on the left front rail? This is a little bothersome because it's redundant..the serial number is on the barrel and frame already? Anyone seen this?

If the insides are good no matter I would offer $1200 for the pistol, 2 mags and holster. If your friend is happy with that then you are golden. If not I might go as high as $1500 but this is depending on the insides being correct and the grips being originals.
The mags you will need would be either aluminum bottom with a center pin or black plastic. With a 42 chamber date I would guess black bottoms. Eagle 37 with a P08 marking.
Holster looks nice.

mrerick · 01-05-2014, 11:05 PM

I think it's normal for these Mauser Lugers to have the numeric serial number digits on the left front of the receiver (above the take down lever)...

Here's my 42 byf:

Marc

lugerholsterrepair · 01-05-2014, 11:19 PM

I think it's normal for these Mauser Lugers to have the numeric serial number digits on the left front of the receiver (above the take down lever)...
Mark, Thanks! Shows you how much I know about Mausers! I never really look at enough to notice the serial number there! I have to get out more...

SteveM · 01-06-2014, 08:06 AM

Jamie, is it possible to get some pics of the inside of the grip panels?

My BYF42 also came with the coarse checkered Krieghoff grips. Dave over at Jan Stills forum is doing a study on these.

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...p-Data-Request

JTD · 01-06-2014, 09:20 AM

Provided internal numbers match, you would be getting a bargan in the 1500 - 1800 range. It is in real good shape, for looking at the pics.

pitt1863 · 01-06-2014, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveM

Jamie, is it possible to get some pics of the inside of the grip panels?

My BYF42 also came with the coarse checkered Krieghoff grips. Dave over at Jan Stills forum is doing a study on these.

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...p-Data-Request

Sure thing, i'll take a few tonight and post them up, Thank you all for your replies!

ithacaartist · 01-06-2014, 02:54 PM

From the thread on the other forum:

Quote:

... I think many agree that Mauser got some parts from HK in 1939 to include some old Simson E/6 sideplates (which you see from time to time on Banners) along with some brown plastic grips...

This makes me wonder if Erfurt/Simson mags that were proofed but un-numbered could have had a similar origin, and one wound up with this gun?

pitt1863 · 01-06-2014, 10:02 PM

Hope these help and thanks a million for all of the info. Always nice to learn a thing or two. If anymore pictures are needed of anything please let me know. Jamie

SteveM · 01-07-2014, 06:54 PM

Thanks for the pics of the grips, they are the real deal. I have seen these grips sell for 3-4 hundred. If you can, pics of both mags would be nice. The condition of the erfurt marked magazine base looks to be in nice condition, the body is probably in as good condition. The E/6 mag has been stamped in the police manner.(marked 2)

Scarygary · 01-08-2014, 12:34 AM

I also have a 1942 BYF And it came in a High Power holster .
Go figure .
Yours looks good .

tau-delt · 01-08-2014, 12:23 PM

Jamie... Thanks for the pictures of the grips. With your permission I wll include your pistol in the study. Is there any documentation or bring back papers with the pistol?

pitt1863 · 01-08-2014, 10:55 PM

Here are the pictures of the mags. Yes you are more then welcome to use this piece for any info that it might be helpful for. As for any documents, I asked but he does not know of any. Are they needed for these?

tau-delt · 01-09-2014, 10:37 AM

Jamie... Thanks and I will update the study. The reason I asked if there was any documentation is because IMO the stuff that came over from Krieghoff in 1940 would most probably been used up way before your pistol was produced but it is way too early in the study to prove that one way or the other. There could be many explainations for why they ended up there and only time and a lot of input will help us to understand.

MikeP · 01-09-2014, 11:34 PM

The grips are very rare and desirable.

I would worry about damaging them You could sell them for the price of several originals.

A dealer would want at least $2500 for this rig.

Date of holster is meaningless-they just gave you one off the pile at hand.

Vlim · 01-09-2014, 11:58 PM

FWIW I have a similar Erfurt proofed but unnumbered spare magazine here. They are pretty rare.

tau-delt · 01-10-2014, 11:01 AM

Mike... I would tell you those HK grips are very durable. One of the tests to check out original grips is to see if a red hot pin will cause smoke or penetrate the material.

SteveM · 01-10-2014, 07:33 PM

Jamie, thanks for the pics of the mags. As Vlim said, the Erfurt wood base mag is a very desirable and rare magazine. It's condition was as I suspected and that is how you like to find them. The other magazine is a police, not sure what era it would belong to, late Weimar or early Nazi.

01-05-2014, 09:42 PM	#1
pitt1863 New User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Southeastern PA Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	New Member, Need Help on a 1942 byf Hello, I am a new member to the forum. I've collected Civil War items for years, but these weapons are completely new to me. I have a chance to purchase this from a friend. It has been in his family for a very long time. When he said he was ready to sell it i thought it worth doing some research to see if it might be worth owning myself. That research has led me here. From what i can tell the case is not for the gun due to the date, but it is in very good condition. The numbers all match at least all i can see, i don't want to take it apart at the risk of not being able to get it back together. The grips look like they are from a Kreigoff Mauser? The condition looks to be very good, one scratch you can see on the side in the pictures and light wear in the bluing on the high spots that are from case wear. The Clip # does not match, and the wood clip looks like it has a Head brand on it? My main questions would be, what do i have here and what is a fair offer to make for this gun. I don't want to pay the full retail but i do want to be fair to him as he told me to figure out what value is. Any help i would be very thankful for. Thanks to all of you. Jamie Attached Thumbnails

01-05-2014, 09:57 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	welcome to the forum The holster does not always match the year of the luger, in fact, that is what collectors want. You can watch some youtube on disassembly and reassembly of lugers the magazines (some people get all weird if you call them clips) are very interesting. The eagle 46 is considered a replacement or provided by / made by Simson - I have eagle 63 magazines that I would trade you and a bit of cash if you get it or some other magazines. The wood bottom is an early WW1 DWM or Erfurt (I can never remember) Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-05-2014, 10:16 PM	#4
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	The wood bottom mag has what looks to be an Erfurt proof but no serial number? Somewhat odd but they might have made replacement mags this way? The pistol looks very nice but there shouldn't be a serial number on the left front rail? This is a little bothersome because it's redundant..the serial number is on the barrel and frame already? Anyone seen this? If the insides are good no matter I would offer $1200 for the pistol, 2 mags and holster. If your friend is happy with that then you are golden. If not I might go as high as $1500 but this is depending on the insides being correct and the grips being originals. The mags you will need would be either aluminum bottom with a center pin or black plastic. With a 42 chamber date I would guess black bottoms. Eagle 37 with a P08 marking. Holster looks nice. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

01-05-2014, 11:05 PM	#5
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	I think it's normal for these Mauser Lugers to have the numeric serial number digits on the left front of the receiver (above the take down lever)... Here's my 42 byf: Marc Attached Thumbnails __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

01-05-2014, 11:19 PM	#6
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	I think it's normal for these Mauser Lugers to have the numeric serial number digits on the left front of the receiver (above the take down lever)... Mark, Thanks! Shows you how much I know about Mausers! I never really look at enough to notice the serial number there! I have to get out more... __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

01-05-2014, 10:12 PM	#3
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	George Anderson may weigh in on these late Kreighoff gripped Mauser pistols...

01-06-2014, 08:06 AM	#7
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	Jamie, is it possible to get some pics of the inside of the grip panels? My BYF42 also came with the coarse checkered Krieghoff grips. Dave over at Jan Stills forum is doing a study on these. http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...p-Data-Request

01-06-2014, 09:20 AM	#8
JTD User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PA Posts: 425 Thanks: 217 Thanked 408 Times in 149 Posts	Provided internal numbers match, you would be getting a bargan in the 1500 - 1800 range. It is in real good shape, for looking at the pics.

01-06-2014, 10:02 PM	#11
pitt1863 New User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Southeastern PA Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	Pictures of the inside of the grips. Hope these help and thanks a million for all of the info. Always nice to learn a thing or two. If anymore pictures are needed of anything please let me know. Jamie Attached Thumbnails

01-07-2014, 06:54 PM	#12
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	Thanks for the pics of the grips, they are the real deal. I have seen these grips sell for 3-4 hundred. If you can, pics of both mags would be nice. The condition of the erfurt marked magazine base looks to be in nice condition, the body is probably in as good condition. The E/6 mag has been stamped in the police manner.(marked 2)

01-08-2014, 12:34 AM	#13
Scarygary User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Aloha Oregon Posts: 8 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 2 Posts	I also have a 1942 BYF And it came in a High Power holster . Go figure . Yours looks good .

01-08-2014, 12:23 PM	#14
tau-delt User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 106 Thanks: 0 Thanked 11 Times in 7 Posts	Jamie... Thanks for the pictures of the grips. With your permission I wll include your pistol in the study. Is there any documentation or bring back papers with the pistol? __________________ dave

01-08-2014, 10:55 PM	#15
pitt1863 New User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Southeastern PA Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	Picture of the mags Here are the pictures of the mags. Yes you are more then welcome to use this piece for any info that it might be helpful for. As for any documents, I asked but he does not know of any. Are they needed for these? Attached Thumbnails

01-09-2014, 10:37 AM	#16
tau-delt User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 106 Thanks: 0 Thanked 11 Times in 7 Posts	Jamie... Thanks and I will update the study. The reason I asked if there was any documentation is because IMO the stuff that came over from Krieghoff in 1940 would most probably been used up way before your pistol was produced but it is way too early in the study to prove that one way or the other. There could be many explainations for why they ended up there and only time and a lot of input will help us to understand. __________________ dave

01-09-2014, 11:34 PM	#17
MikeP User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ILL Posts: 686 Thanks: 36 Thanked 452 Times in 198 Posts	The grips are very rare and desirable. I would worry about damaging them You could sell them for the price of several originals. A dealer would want at least $2500 for this rig. Date of holster is meaningless-they just gave you one off the pile at hand.

01-09-2014, 11:58 PM	#18
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	FWIW I have a similar Erfurt proofed but unnumbered spare magazine here. They are pretty rare. Attached Thumbnails

01-10-2014, 11:01 AM	#19
tau-delt User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 106 Thanks: 0 Thanked 11 Times in 7 Posts	Mike... I would tell you those HK grips are very durable. One of the tests to check out original grips is to see if a red hot pin will cause smoke or penetrate the material. __________________ dave

01-10-2014, 07:33 PM	#20
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	Jamie, thanks for the pics of the mags. As Vlim said, the Erfurt wood base mag is a very desirable and rare magazine. It's condition was as I suspected and that is how you like to find them. The other magazine is a police, not sure what era it would belong to, late Weimar or early Nazi.