DWM chamber marked 1918

Mach2Plus · 05-26-2014, 03:28 AM

DWM 1918 ser# 6265a. front grip strap marked "169.R.5.51.". Any ideas on translation? Thanks pistol does not have a sear safety,

Sergio Natali · 05-26-2014, 04:48 AM

Rich,

First of all welcome to this forum, then I think that would be interesting to see some close and detailed pictures of your gun.

Lugerdoc · 05-26-2014, 10:50 AM

Mach2+, Your grip strap marking is military, not police which would normally have the sear safety added. 169th Infantry Regiment, 5th Company, gun inventory #51. TH

Mach2Plus · 05-26-2014, 11:08 AM

Many thanks for the rapid replies, Gents. I will work on some photos. Happy Memorial Day and Semper Fi!

roadkill1 · 05-26-2014, 10:54 PM

Rich:

Assuming your DWM 1918 Luger is marked to the 169th Infantry Regiment (pictures of the Luger and its markings are always the best confirmation), it has an interesting battle history. This regiment was initially assigned to the 29th Infantry Division, a Baden Division, and remained with the 29th all of 1914 and into 1915. As part of the 29th, your regiment fought in Alsace-Lorraine, Artois and Champagne. The 29th Infantry Division was considered a rated to be a good division by British Intelligence in 1917.

In March, 1915, the 52nd Infantry Division was formed, another division from the Grand Duchy of Baden. Your regiment was assigned to 52nd on this date and remained with this division for the duration of WWI. The 52nd fought in the battles of Artois in April of 1915. During 1916, it fought in the Somme, Alsace, Aisne, Californie Plateau and Champagne. During 1918, the 52nd began fighting in Champagne and then in Picardy, Aisne, Lens, Armentieres, Bapume, and ended the war fighting in the Argonne area.

"The 52d is rated as one of the best German divisions. It was in a great deal of heavy fighting during 1918 (as in producing years) and acquitted itself most creditably."

The above quote, as well as the previous battle history of the 169th Infantry Regiment came from the book entitled, "Histories of Two Hundred and Fifty-One Divisions of the German Army Which Participated in the War (1914-1918)" First published in 1920 by the United States War Office as War Department Document No. 905.

Congrats Rich, you have a wonderful piece of Living History!!

Ron

Mach2Plus · 05-27-2014, 12:41 AM

Fascinating information. Your research efforts are much appreciated. Thanks again, Rich V.

klaus 3338 · 05-27-2014, 03:28 AM

Another one of this regiment.

Mach2Plus · 05-27-2014, 03:10 PM

Here are some (amateur) photos:

Mach2Plus · 05-27-2014, 03:48 PM

In certain light and without magnification, that last "3" looks just like a "5".

Mach2Plus · 05-27-2014, 04:28 PM

Thanks, Klaus, Regards from Texas.

alanint · 05-27-2014, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mach2Plus

In certain light and without magnification, that last "3" looks just like a "5".

The original weapon number was scratched out and a new number, with much larger font was added above the original number. Any number of reasons why this may have happened, but it looks like a period modification.

tenbears · 05-28-2014, 04:11 PM

If you don't already know any dated 1918 Luger is considered rare. You seldom encounter anything unit marked after 1916. I have a S9805 dated 1917 bayonet that is unit marked and that's it for post 1916 unit marks in my collection.

John Sabato · 05-28-2014, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mach2Plus

In certain light and without magnification, that last "3" looks just like a "5".

Take a closer look and you will see what really happened...

The unit armorer who put the unit mark on this pistol accidently stamped the "3" upside down... and then corrected his mistake and overstamped the digit with the "3" correctly oriented...

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

... but it looks like a period modification.

I concur... I see no foul or attempt to deceive in this "oops".

tenbears · 05-28-2014, 05:20 PM

Enclosed is a picture of a MG unit marked S9805 bayonet with the K struck backwards so it does happen.

Mach2Plus · 05-28-2014, 10:39 PM

Gentlemen, I certainly appreciate the truly fascinating information about my Luger (my first). Thanks again to all of you for your input! Rich V I suppose that in light of Tenbears information I won't be taking it to the range!

Sergio Natali · 05-29-2014, 03:42 PM

"The unit armorer who put the unit mark on this pistol accidently stamped the "3" upside down... and then corrected his mistake and overstamped the digit with the "3" correctly oriented..."

John

Congratulations I think you really hit the mark again!

Sergio

klaus 3338 · 05-30-2014, 03:17 AM

The Infantry Regiment 169 was stationed in Lahr/ Baden. It was part of the 52. Army Corps and saw action in 1918 during the great battle of France- the last offensive of the German Army. Since 1914 was this battle the first for the German Army with great win of terrain.
After the great battle came Flanders for the regiment.
I visited all of the battle places- Flanders seems to have been the hardest of all battle fields to me.

cirelaw · 05-30-2014, 09:10 AM

I have an artillery from the 169th Baden and researched its' history~Eric http://www.pals.org.uk/ir169_e1.htm

05-26-2014, 03:28 AM	#1
Mach2Plus User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 13 Thanks: 9 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	DWM chamber marked 1918 DWM 1918 ser# 6265a. front grip strap marked "169.R.5.51.". Any ideas on translation? Thanks pistol does not have a sear safety, Last edited by Mach2Plus; 05-26-2014 at 03:33 AM. Reason: add additional info

05-26-2014, 04:48 AM	#2
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Rich, First of all welcome to this forum, then I think that would be interesting to see some close and detailed pictures of your gun. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

05-26-2014, 10:50 AM	#3
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Mach2+, Your grip strap marking is military, not police which would normally have the sear safety added. 169th Infantry Regiment, 5th Company, gun inventory #51. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected]

05-27-2014, 03:28 AM	#7
klaus 3338 User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 517 Thanks: 0 Thanked 411 Times in 160 Posts	Another one of this regiment. Attached Thumbnails

05-27-2014, 03:10 PM	#8
Mach2Plus User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 13 Thanks: 9 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Here are some (amateur) photos: Attached Thumbnails

05-26-2014, 11:08 AM	#4
Mach2Plus User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 13 Thanks: 9 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Many thanks for the rapid replies, Gents. I will work on some photos. Happy Memorial Day and Semper Fi!

05-26-2014, 10:54 PM	#5
roadkill1 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Virginia Posts: 127 Thanks: 166 Thanked 129 Times in 63 Posts	Rich: Assuming your DWM 1918 Luger is marked to the 169th Infantry Regiment (pictures of the Luger and its markings are always the best confirmation), it has an interesting battle history. This regiment was initially assigned to the 29th Infantry Division, a Baden Division, and remained with the 29th all of 1914 and into 1915. As part of the 29th, your regiment fought in Alsace-Lorraine, Artois and Champagne. The 29th Infantry Division was considered a rated to be a good division by British Intelligence in 1917. In March, 1915, the 52nd Infantry Division was formed, another division from the Grand Duchy of Baden. Your regiment was assigned to 52nd on this date and remained with this division for the duration of WWI. The 52nd fought in the battles of Artois in April of 1915. During 1916, it fought in the Somme, Alsace, Aisne, Californie Plateau and Champagne. During 1918, the 52nd began fighting in Champagne and then in Picardy, Aisne, Lens, Armentieres, Bapume, and ended the war fighting in the Argonne area. "The 52d is rated as one of the best German divisions. It was in a great deal of heavy fighting during 1918 (as in producing years) and acquitted itself most creditably." The above quote, as well as the previous battle history of the 169th Infantry Regiment came from the book entitled, "Histories of Two Hundred and Fifty-One Divisions of the German Army Which Participated in the War (1914-1918)" First published in 1920 by the United States War Office as War Department Document No. 905. Congrats Rich, you have a wonderful piece of Living History!! Ron

05-27-2014, 12:41 AM	#6
Mach2Plus User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 13 Thanks: 9 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Fascinating information. Your research efforts are much appreciated. Thanks again, Rich V.

05-27-2014, 03:48 PM	#9
Mach2Plus User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 13 Thanks: 9 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	In certain light and without magnification, that last "3" looks just like a "5".

05-27-2014, 04:28 PM	#10
Mach2Plus User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 13 Thanks: 9 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks, Klaus, Regards from Texas.

05-28-2014, 04:11 PM	#12
tenbears User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 370 Thanks: 3 Thanked 26 Times in 15 Posts	If you don't already know any dated 1918 Luger is considered rare. You seldom encounter anything unit marked after 1916. I have a S9805 dated 1917 bayonet that is unit marked and that's it for post 1916 unit marks in my collection.

05-28-2014, 05:20 PM	#14
tenbears User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 370 Thanks: 3 Thanked 26 Times in 15 Posts	Enclosed is a picture of a MG unit marked S9805 bayonet with the K struck backwards so it does happen. Attached Thumbnails

05-28-2014, 10:39 PM	#15
Mach2Plus User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 13 Thanks: 9 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Gentlemen, I certainly appreciate the truly fascinating information about my Luger (my first). Thanks again to all of you for your input! Rich V I suppose that in light of Tenbears information I won't be taking it to the range! Last edited by Mach2Plus; 05-28-2014 at 10:50 PM. Reason: add info

05-29-2014, 03:42 PM	#16
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	"The unit armorer who put the unit mark on this pistol accidently stamped the "3" upside down... and then corrected his mistake and overstamped the digit with the "3" correctly oriented..." John Congratulations I think you really hit the mark again! Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

05-30-2014, 03:17 AM	#17
klaus 3338 User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 517 Thanks: 0 Thanked 411 Times in 160 Posts	The Infantry Regiment 169 was stationed in Lahr/ Baden. It was part of the 52. Army Corps and saw action in 1918 during the great battle of France- the last offensive of the German Army. Since 1914 was this battle the first for the German Army with great win of terrain. After the great battle came Flanders for the regiment. I visited all of the battle places- Flanders seems to have been the hardest of all battle fields to me.

05-30-2014, 09:10 AM	#18
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I have an artillery from the 169th Baden and researched its' history~Eric http://www.pals.org.uk/ir169_e1.htm Attached Thumbnails Attached Images Last edited by cirelaw; 05-30-2014 at 03:20 PM.